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The Platonic -lauraw August 12, 2006

Posted by anycomments in AA - Uncategorized, Crime, Ducks, Lurkers, Science.
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[This post has been bumped by Site Administration for the convenience of those whe are continuing to comment here.] 

I have a male friend.

We were in the same class in school, have known each other since we were 13 years old. Our friendship solidified when we were both nineteen, shortly after graduation. We ‘clicked.’ Used to go out all the time, with or without my boyfriend.

We got high a couple times (I have never been much for pot), but mostly hung out and had a few beers, watch a movie, talk and laugh until the wee hours. I spent a lot of time with his very large and musical family, who are loads of fun. Quite a few times he slept on my boyfriend’s couch after we’d chat half the night.

It seems to me that girls and boys can learn a lot about each other through simple platonic friendship. Things that make the rest of life a little easier. Its like learning another language.

Since those young years, we both have accumulated homes and family; he has a wonderful wife who I talk to occasionally on email, and three great kids, one of whom is my Goddaughter. She’s a teenager now. Time flies.

We now live many states apart, and our visits are separated by years.

He’s a good man and I am proud to be his friend.

My question is;

Is this possible?

Hubby says that platonic relationships between men and women are bullshit. I can honestly say I have never wanted to ‘do’ anything with the guy. Hubby says he wants me.

Is this just husbandly jealousy, or is it true that men and women just can’t really be friends?

I feel that I already know the answer, because I have lived it. But I’m interested in others’ experiences.

Just don’t bring up When Harry Met Sally. Please. Don’t.

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Comments»

1. HayZeus - August 9, 2006

It’s possible in theory but I wouldn’t bet against your husband. :P

2. Feisty - August 9, 2006

I doubt your friendship didn’t include at least one feel-up/drunk make-out session or one-night stand. Simply impossible.

I do know people who have had lifelong male friends, but after a certain point, I think they decide NOT to have sex just because they’re friends, not because they wouldn’t otherwise have sex with each other. If you met a dude when you were 13, it would be like having sex with your brother. Of course, if you met when you were 21 and in the sorority house, the story would be different, would it not?

3. daveintexas - August 9, 2006

I was told there would be no math on this test.

No math.

That’s what I was told.

4. lauraw - August 9, 2006

Never, Feisty.
We peck on the cheek and hug hard, like family that knows it will be a long time til we hug again.
And he is like a brother. We have never decided NOT to have sex. It just has never come up. Like with my real, biological brother. Ew.

And neither of us are bog-beasts.
Could this be the first time in History?

Somebody. This can’t just be me.

5. Michael - August 9, 2006

What HZ said.

6. Michael - August 9, 2006

Seriously, Laura, why are you even raising the issue? If you are Oh-So-Secure about the familial nature of the your relationship with this guy, it should just be a fact of life for you. Obviously, it’s not.

7. John - August 9, 2006

Before I was married, I had quite a few friends who are girls. It would be a lie to say that when we were friends that I never thought about taking it to the next level, or trying to. But for host of reasons over and above sex, with these people I’m talking about, it remained friends. It was really no big deal – it’s not like I “re-affirmed” my commitment not to sleep with them every day or anything. It was a value choice, I guess.

When I got married, I let all of those relationships pretty much fade. I am fortunate that there are several girls in my family around my age (cousins) who I have always been pretty close to, so it’s not like I lacked for friend-girls. But it was a different place in my life – time to focus on my wife.

Now I have many business relationships with women, and some of those have become friendships. I wouldn’t call any of these particularly deep and meaningful – it’s purely platonic, and probably not much deeper than having the occasional good conversation.

Can’t say I miss the other either – when I had those relationships, they were good friends at that time, but I’m a bit different now. My focus is significantly different now.

What’s funny is that your take on this is that women are somehow some constant force being harangued into sex / relationships by attracted males. In my past, I got the feeling that several of those girls would have liked to take it a step farther if given an opportunity. That’s not any sort of conceit – it’s a statement on the shallow field ;-).

But it works both ways. Who can say what would have happened if I hadn’t moved from Texas back to Alabama? Sometimes friendships are just where you both run out of gas. That’s not a bad thing.

8. Michael - August 9, 2006

And don’t blame Mr. LauraW. You would laugh off his jealousy if there was not really an issue in your mind.

9. lauraw - August 9, 2006

Goddamnit. Michael.

Michael, I expect this from you. Michael.
You’ve prolly never had a single female friend you didn’t want to fuck, no matter the hunchback, or long leg hairs, or moustache, or prehensile penis.

Goddamnit.

There has to be somebody out there who can understand late non-biological siblinghood.

10. lauraw - August 9, 2006

Seems I posted with everybody else, sorry.

No, Michael I’m posting this because my husband put it in my mind.

And I wanted to see if it was as rare as he thinks it is.

11. Michael - August 9, 2006

You’ve prolly never had a single female friend you didn’t want to fuck, no matter the hunchback, or long leg hairs, or moustache, or prehensile penis.

Sorry, you’ve got that wrong. If you see me in a bar when Mrs. Michael is out of town, I’m talking to whoever is sitting next to me, and that is usually the fattest and ugliest chick in Ohio. Which is OK with me, because fat ugly girls are actually some of the most interesting people around.

12. lauraw - August 9, 2006

And apparently, it is.
So you think no (hetero) men can be actual, real, non-sexual-component friends with women?

13. Dex - August 9, 2006

There was a study done on kids in kibbutzim in Israel a long time ago. Kids that grow up together are much less likely to hook up when they reach maturity. So there may be something to what you’re saying, Laura. But I don’t know that a lot of us guys have experienced it. It may well be that he had surreptitious thoughts about you but wisely never let them out, knowing he’d be rebuffed. Over time those feelings fade and what he’s left with is an old friend – not a bad trade at all. Not that you’re old, but you know what I mean.

14. daveintexas - August 9, 2006

lauraw, I think there are men, who can have strong feelings of friendship toward a woman, who choose to subordinate desire and passion and all that stuff. Probably because of the choices each have made… if they were unfettered, well I don’t know about that.

But men of good will can choose to respect boundaries. And still be friends. It’s a weird fight, but one we kinda feel good about, in a crazy way.

I’ll tell you straight up, we can’t help thinking about it.

Crazy wiring or some shit.

15. Michael - August 9, 2006

Actually, the most memorable bar conversation I ever had (as a married guy) was with this girl named Lesti. She was sitting next to me, so a talked to her. She was obviously lesbian, but we started chatting. The conversation progressed to a degree of intimacy where she paused and rather abruptly told me she was lesbian. Apparently she was worried that she was leading me on. I said that I had kind of figured that she was lesbian from her “Houston Gay/Lesbian Pride” tee shirt, which, I must say, she amply filled (it was actually her generally nbutch appearance that set off my gaydar, but I didn’t say that).

She was visibly shocked to hear that I had assumed she was gay and was just talking to her. We had a great evening after that. I heard her entire life story, and it was fascinating.

16. Retired Geezer - August 9, 2006

I had lots of platonic nekkid showgirl friends.

Believe it or not.

17. daveintexas - August 9, 2006

oh fine, RUB IT IN rg.

bastich.

18. Plato - August 9, 2006

You people are fucking insane.

19. Oedipus - August 9, 2006

Oedipus schmedipus I still love ya ma!

20. Michael - August 9, 2006

But men of good will can choose to respect boundaries.

Dave nailed it. I have female friends that I would love to screw, but sex is an agenda item that gets pushed off the bottom of the list because more important things are at stake.

So, Laura, to put it bluntly, your guy friend wants to screw you and Mr. LauraW has good cause to be wary of this relationship. But it sounds like this guy may actually be a man of good will, and is focussed on something more important. Just be careful that you don’t get in a situation that screws that up.

21. HayZeus - August 10, 2006

lauraw, I think there are men, who can have strong feelings of friendship toward a woman, who choose to subordinate desire and passion and all that stuff. Probably because of the choices each have made… if they were unfettered, well I don’t know about that.

But men of good will can choose to respect boundaries. And still be friends. It’s a weird fight, but one we kinda feel good about, in a crazy way.

That’s certainly a good description of my experience for the most part but then again I don’t tend to form terribly intimate friendships so my experience probably isn’t a good one by which to judge.

22. Michael - August 10, 2006

I had lots of platonic nekkid showgirl friends.

RG, you are a better man than me.

23. skinbad - August 10, 2006

I guess I’ve kind of seen it with a couple of “one of the guys” girls. They were not physically unattractive, but their signals were so strongly “let’s hang out and do something” with the group, that you (I) didn’t feel any thrill in the chase.

But I thought about it. As has your friend. I think it would be a very rare husband who didn’t share the opinion of yours in a similar case.

There are also borderline cases where the physical aspect could go either way, and without encouragement from both sides, it’s easiest just to decide it’s not your cup of tea.

24. Oedipus - August 10, 2006

She means me. I’m her guy friend.

And I have SO minded my manners.

But c’mon, you guys have seen that arm. So white. So pure. A whiter shade of pale.

I’m glad I respect our boundaries.

I am a man of goodwill.

25. Dave in Texas - August 10, 2006

shit. I have GOT to learn to watch my stored name crap

26. lauraw - August 10, 2006

OK, so I am alone.

When I saw Frank a few days ago (the last time for years or until I sell my store), I hung out with him and his parents and wife and kids out on the deck.
His parents will be moving down South soon, so there will be no reason for my bud to visit Conn. evermore.

It was nice to reconnoiter with the family, and drink his father’s beer again.
He walked me to my truck, alone, close to midnight.

He said, “Laura, the kids are getting big, and Dad is getting white.”
I said, “Yeah. Frank Sr. looks a lot different since ten years ago. The same, but different. We’re all getting old, hon.”

He said, “I know. But I don’t want to lose touch with you guys.”
I laughed, “Asshole. Don’t you know how to use your wife’s email??”
He promised to write (he never does).

We hugged and said goodnight. We were both misty.

Told hubby about it, and he dumps this stupid ‘he wants you’ shit in my lap.
And then I told you rat-bastards about it, and you have been NO HELP WHATSOEVER.

27. Dave in Texas - August 10, 2006

Yes, you love us, and think therefore we’re chock full of good advice.

So your husband is a little bugged that you have some platonic affections for a guy from your past. They are obviously more than just how you feel about ME, it’s real stuff, but it ain’t life changing or gonna make you all dumb or anything.

This is surprising you somehow? I mean, I know he’s cooler than me but shee-it my ninja, we can all be assholes when the occasion calls for it. I don’t know a man alive wants to see his woman get her heart strings tugged by anotha boy.

Lauraw, we find the stupidest ways there are to say “I love you”. It is like, a gift or something. Genetic. Shit I don’t know. We are good at it though.

28. Dave in Texas - August 10, 2006

what the HELL am I doing?

take your goddam medicine mr. lauraw! you earned it pal.

that’s RIGHT.

29. Michael - August 10, 2006

We hugged and said goodnight. We were both misty.

I rest my case.

And then I told you rat-bastards about it, and you have been NO HELP WHATSOEVER.

No. Listen, Your imaginary male friends are telling you stuff you probably would never hear in real life.

30. sandy burger - August 10, 2006

LauraW, your old pal Sandy is here to put your mind at ease.

Platonic friendships certainly can and do exist. However, do understand that he has imagined having sex with you before, at some point in the past, and has just chosen not to dwell on such thoughts or pursue them further. I’m not sure why that should be a big deal. If you know him well, and it feels platonic, then it probably is.

31. sandy burger - August 10, 2006

I have never been much for pot

For the record, after reading this, you’ve now been demoted from my imaginary friend to my purely platonic imaginary friend.

32. DaveinTexas - August 10, 2006

oh yeah, I meant to add that. we are platonic friends lauraw my dear. I love you like the little sister I never had. Uh. Ok I have little sisters. Nothing freaky there, at all! Like that is what I meant.

*platonic hugs*

I have never been much for pot. Since 1980.

33. BrewFan - August 10, 2006

We take what we can get. If its not offered we’re happy to have you as a friend. Its possible.

34. lauraw - August 10, 2006

You guys are so fun. Thanks.

35. lauraw - August 10, 2006

we can all be assholes when the occasion calls for it

Word.

And sometimes just for no good reason at all…

I can see that I asked you guys for your opinion and then struggled against it. Sorry about that.
Hubby made me really mad the other night.

I kept saying, “You’re wrong.”
He kept saying “He wants you.”
I felt he was impugning one of my oldest friendships.

I’m going to walk away now and just let it rest at “We may both be right,” and never think on it again.
Thanks again.

36. kevlarchick - August 10, 2006

OK, another chick’s perspective here. I have lots of male friends, in fact in many ways I prefer them. But I do not want to have sex with them. I don’t think they want to have sex with me.

He is capable of being a good friend. Absolutely.

Keep your friends, lauraw, but respect your marriage–even when he pisses you off. When your man loves you like that, he’s a little possessive and territorial. It’s natural. But does he want you to cut off the relationship with your lifelong man friend? That may be a different issue.

37. Dave in Texas - August 10, 2006

Well, I am a moron, but I think your conclusion is probably right.

Not knowing the gentleman I cannot say for sure. But what I meant in earnest was that men cannot help desire, particularly someone you care about. You choose to subordinate these feelings.

It’s always there, but as a good-willed man you shrug it off and tell yourself you are making a choice for your friend and yourself that is better, and then you enjoy the friendship.

It sounds as if your husband wasn’t acknowledging your friend’s good-willed choice to forget about all that sex stuff and enjoy being your friend.

38. Ron Burgundy - August 10, 2006

I wanna say something. I’m gonna put it out there; if you like it, you can take it, if you don’t, send it right back. I want to be on you.

39. lauraw - August 10, 2006

KC, Hubby doesn’t ask me to break off the friendship…that would be silly, anyway, since we see each other so rarely.

But he gets growly when Frank is around. And nothing I say is gonna make him understand. That’s OK, that’s life.

We got to stop talking about me now.

BIG news day!! WOW

40. HayZeus - August 10, 2006

You referring to the thwarted Heathrow attack there, hunchback Laura?

41. lauraw - August 10, 2006

yeah, amazing.

Hope they managed to thwart other sub-plots too.

42. HayZeus - August 10, 2006

Me too. Every time something like this happens I find myself warily waiting for the other shoe to drop for several days afterwards.

43. Karl Rove - August 10, 2006

Lieberman loses, this hits the news. Do I have to spell it out for you?

44. BrewFan - August 10, 2006

This is why we love you, Karl. Platonically, that is.

45. jayne - August 10, 2006

Lauraw
I think that there can indeed be platonic friendships between sexes. But I don’t think men know it. Maybe on the man’s side they want more, I can’t say for sure about that, but at least on our (female) side, it is possible.
When I decided to get divorced I went to see a lawyer that I had heard was the best. He said that he would not take my case-he said that I couldn’t afford him!-but that he would work with whoever I did choose and would even accompany me to court every time I had to go. The divorce took 2 grueling years and this man became my best friend. Believe me, many people assumed that we were dating, but we never did. And by the time the divorce was over I had mixed feelings about whether I ever would date him. I think we both felt the same way. People that you date can come and go in your life, but true friendships are rare. So we have never dated to this day.
On the other hand, to be totally honest, I would be more threatened by a female best friend than I would be by a past female dating relationship! Thats because I do know how close a male/female friendship can be.

46. Plato - August 10, 2006

It’s certainly possible. I was friends with many women, and that’s all, just friends.

I miss them.

47. spongeworthy - August 10, 2006

Your friend is a closet case. He loves you because you don’t pressure him for sex the way other women do.

Don’t ask me how I know this.

48. geoff - August 10, 2006

But he gets growly when Frank is around. And nothing I say is gonna make him understand.

I’d say that in this instance he’s probably right. Guys have outstanding sniffers when it comes to other guys’ intentions. I had exactly the same experience when an old ‘friend’ of my girlfriend came to town. I was cranky all weekend, while she, of course, was oblivious to the testosterone telegraph. When I explained it all to her, she thought it was ridiculous. Then, later, not so much . . .

49. lauraw - August 10, 2006

He’s not gay. Sheesh. NTTAWWT

50. Casey Kasem - August 10, 2006

We’re sending this one out to lauraw

“Same Old Lang Syne”

51. spongeworthy - August 10, 2006

If he were a closet case you wouldn’t necessarily know if he were gay or not. But I keed, I keed.

It is difficult for me to imagine hanging around someone as funny as you and not be curious if you were also funny between the sheets. I like funny between the sheets since two people laughing is always better than one laughing and the other slinking away in shame.

Don’t ask me why I know this.

52. Russ from Winterset - August 10, 2006

If he’s a man, then he’s had “those” kind of thoughts about you, Laura. The main thing here is that he’s never acted on them. Whether “he’s just not into you”, or if he vaules your friendship enough to never act out on them, or even if he’s repressing them in order to stay friends – the fact is that you’re still friends.

You might be right, your hubby might be right, or you BOTH might be right. The important thing is that he’s your friend, and you don’t view him as competition to “Mr. LauraW”.

53. Mrs. L - August 10, 2006

Your husband sees you sharing an emotionally intimate moment with another man, and he can’t imagine how a man can be that close to you without wanting more. Whether your friend has those feelings or not is irrelevant. This is about you and your husband. And he responded by getting bristly and mildly possessive and not by forbidding you to see him or accusing you of cheating or anything ugly.

Sounds like you got yourself a good one.

54. lauraw - August 10, 2006

You’re nice, Mrs. L, Russ.

All you guys. You’re all nice.

((((GROUP HUG))))

Whoever’s hand that is, remove it immediately.

55. Dave in Texas - August 10, 2006

I was just trying to guess your weight.

56. Bart - August 10, 2006

Forget all that shit, lauraw.
I have one word for you: timing.

The timing of events dictate what paths we take in life. What if you didn’t meet Scoot? What if Frank didn’t meet his wife? Your lives would be different now, right? But everything fell into place a certain way and you are where you are today.

The opportunity, or idea, of starting an intimate relationship with Frank never presented itself because there was no need. I believe if your history was slightly altered, things could have much different with Frank.

When a man and a woman spend a lot of time together, eventually they will entertain thoughts of an intimate nature. It’s just the way it is.

57. John - August 10, 2006

No … the way it is is that the guys get shirts …

And a group hug.

58. Mrs. Peel - August 10, 2006

Damn, I can’t believe I missed this conversation.

59. DaveinTexas - August 10, 2006

me either

60. sticky b - August 11, 2006

Here’s what the renowned psychiatrist Dr. Chriss Rock has to say about this situation, (I paraphrase quite loosely):

Women have friends who are men all the time and think nothing of it. He’s just one of the girls who happens to be hairy and farts alot. Men don’t have friends who are women. There are two types of women in a man’s life: those he has fucked, and those he hasn’t fucked…………….yet.

61. drolmorg - August 11, 2006

I don’t think a guy can be a platonic friend with an attractive woman. By this I mean he will always want trigger time with her, she just won’t give it up. Now an unattractive girl is a different matter. In this case SHE wants to jump HIM. This happens a lot, (to me at least) and it sucks because I have to be rather firm with her (no pun), then they end up hating me or calling me gay, or some other silly shit. “How dare you not want to fuck me!” Sigh. So no. I don’t think so.

62. Beth - August 11, 2006

Me too, Mrs. Peel. It’s probably just as well because this is an issue that totally chaps my ass.
lauraw, I am going to just bite my tongue (sort of) and say it would probably suck if Mr. Lauraw didn’t give a shit, but yeah. I’d be pissed if I were you too. To ME–and it’s just me–even bringing up the issue indicates a lack of trust, and that to me is just pickin’ a fight you hella don’t want.
I’ve been there. I know that fight.

I’ve mostly had male friends as an adult, mainly because I was in the military. I have had occasions where dudes I thought were my friends ended up hitting on me, but never, EVER a friend who I’ve known for a long time. That IS totally different, and I can’t believe that he thinks about you that way after all these years. It IS like a brother-sister thing. Eww.

My question: do any of you guys who say “he has thought about it” have any female friends that you’ve been friends with since you were kids? And haven’t you ever had a female friend that isn’t gross but you thought of as “one of the guys” or like a sister? Ever?

63. Dave in Texas - August 11, 2006

Not me. But then I don’t have any friendships from my childhood.

To me this discussion is more about the difference in the relative weight of sexual thoughts between a man and a woman. We have em for a moment, then they’re gone (oooo look, bacon!). We probably act/dwell on one thought in a thousand (or some absurdly high number, I haven’t actually done the math. I said earlier and I repeat, I was told there would be no math on this test).

It’s just wiring ladies. Ain’t that big a deal.

Either that or I’m a pervert. I haven’t ruled that out.

64. lauraw - August 11, 2006

Beth, the question has been asked and answered.

Begging for a better answer ain’t gonna change it.

They all have the same primal urges, even the ones we love. Like Dave says, they can sublimate it if they want to.

Let me put it to you this way; have you ever seen a pair of really cute shoes that would totally go with several of your outfits?

Maybe you resisted buying them, but you did covet them. People can control their actions but not their base desires.

65. Dave in Texas - August 11, 2006

I would keep some bacon handy.

Only addendum I can think of lauraw is that we can and do enjoy the “friend” nature of the relationship. Those are genuine feelings/experiences. We don’t let the other stuff get in the way.

The shoe thing is confusing to me though. ;)

66. Some Guy - August 11, 2006

It’s been my theory that most (straight) men tend to view/evaluate women as potential sexual partners as a matter of course (and very early on), but women don’t do that to men as much or give that evaluation as much prority. (I.e. mentally, men= horndogs, women= civilized humans.) (And as has been mentioned, thoughts are less relevant than actual actions.)

Personally, my favorite line is from one of the later Raymond Chandler novels- The Big Goodbye, I think- where hardboiled toughguy Philip Marlowe thinks (or maybe says) (and this is from memory), “Dammit. Can’t a man and a woman talk without bringing the bedroom into it?”

I think he was exaggerating, but by how much varies from person to person.

67. Michael - August 11, 2006

And haven’t you ever had a female friend that isn’t gross but you thought of as “one of the guys” or like a sister? Ever?

Nope. Doesn’t mean we’re not just friends, but I only have one sister.

68. Retired Geezer - August 11, 2006

The shoe thing is confusing to me though.

Lemme ‘splain it to you, Dave.
You’re at the Gunshow, you see a cool accessory for your .45 or your AR-15.

69. Beth - August 11, 2006

Shooooooes!!!!!!!!

I get the urges thing, I’m just saying, childhood friends?
:: sigh ::

we can and do enjoy the “friend” nature of the relationship. Those are genuine feelings/experiences. We don’t let the other stuff get in the way.

And I totally get that too. I guess I just wonder how often the friendship is a means to an end. Not in Laura’s friend’s case or long-term friendships, of course, but just regular stuff.

70. Michael - August 11, 2006

Borrowing from Bart:

When guys say “you’re like a sister to me,” they really mean

A. You’re not drunk enough yet.
B. I’m married and this is not worth the risk.
C. You are a dog.
D. I’m not going to screw up this relationship with sex.

The only certainty is that they do not mean you’re actually like a sister to them.

71. Bart - August 11, 2006

You mean sandy, Michael. You know, the guy who looks and acts like a girl.

72. Michael - August 11, 2006

Sorry, Bart.

I forgot:

E. I’m gay.

73. Retired Geezer - August 11, 2006

Beth, I don’t know why Michael always has to mention the Gay thing because…

*squeals*
Where did you get those Shoooooes?

74. daveintexas - August 11, 2006

I guess I just wonder how often the friendship is a means to an end.

Men of goodwill may be an unfamiliar expression… I use it, but I don’t know how often others use it.

“Gentleman” used to be the word, my mom used that one.

I think wimmin kinda know when a man is using subterfuge (how in the hell do you spell that) to get closer for another reason.

But I take lauraw’s description of the interaction and relationship as “the guy really likes her or loves her platonically and can manage the stupid wiring shit we have”. And that’s nice.

I have affectionate “brotherly” feelings for her too, and I’m not ashamed to admit it!

That’s right! I do.

75. coondawg - August 11, 2006

There isn’t a straight man in the world who has a friendship with a girl that he likes that he doesn’t wack off to at the least. She’s on the list maybe not in heavy rotation but it comes up. if he’s single it means he wants you and will wait out any boyfriend or inconvienience. if he marries he will possibly be less of a dog but if you said “you know what might be fun…” he will have his underware around his ankels and a rubber half on before you can finish the subject.

76. daveintexas - August 11, 2006

Yes. That’s helpful.

*slaps the dumbass coondawg*

77. lauraw - August 11, 2006

SIGH.

He’s only saying what others have, in more graphic terms.

78. Michael - August 11, 2006

Aw, gee, Dave, I have “brotherly” feelings about Laura too.

Hey Sis, wanna play Doctor?

79. lauraw - August 12, 2006

Would you like me to hit you with a mackerel, or a nice fresh trout this time Michael?
Oh, nevermind, its Chef’s Choice.

*WHAP*

80. daveintexas - August 12, 2006

He is not a man of good will lauraw.

He is a retard who works at Goodwill.

big diff

81. Stephanie - August 12, 2006

One question that hasn’t been explored is the woman’s question.

We KNOW that all guys will look. Yes, we know they can refrain from acting on the impulse.

The true question you should ask yourself is

When you go to meet him do you dress to please? If you dress to please (ie put on a great outfit, do the makeup etc) you are complicitous in the “look” from the guy.

Why do you think women dress the way we do? NO outfit is put on without a thought of what other people will think of us in it (or out of it). Even the 400 lb woman thinks this way (how else to rationalize her sticking her ass in that spandex and tube top). It might be icky, but she is still dressing to please, and probably has a warped mental image of what she actually looks like. But I digress…

How big a tease are you (be honest)?

Dress, conversation, looks, are all signs that women do put men somewhere on the ladder.

We will flirt with anything on the ladder. Some of the flirting is in passing, some is done to scope out the friend vs lover ratio. Some is just an attention getter (skanky). Hell we will even flirt with the zeros just to reinforce our ego.

Most flirting is so subtle women don’t always realize that is what it is. Men correctly see it as a parry back in the sex angle thing.

Your hubby correctly sees your flirting in casual situations and misreads it as interest. I find alot of married men are still insecure. They don’t feel that they deserve what they got. Hell they tell us this all the time.

You can’t change an insecure male, but you need to ask yourself if you want to feed that insecurity.

82. geoff - August 12, 2006

You can’t change an insecure male, but you need to ask yourself if you want to feed that insecurity.

Eh – I don’t think that’s the problem here. If Scott’s alarms have been set off, then I suspect there’s a reason for it. Guys know instantly when other guys are thinking about peeing on their tree. Some guys’ alarms are faulty due to insecurities, but if he’s pretty rational under most circumstances, I’d believe in what his gut is saying.

83. Retired Geezer - August 12, 2006

One question that hasn’t been explored is the woman’s question.

Stephanie, thanks for the thoughtful input.

84. Mrs. Peel - August 12, 2006

Stephanie makes a good point…

Here’s a related question. I absolutely refuse to believe in love at first sight for a variety of reasons, but have any of y’all ever had an experience in which you met someone of the opposite sex for the first time, looked right into his or her eyes, and immediately “clicked” (or “felt a connection” or however you want to put it), and if so, what was the result?

Another related question: Is there such a thing as emotional infidelity? In other words, there’s no physical component, but you’re emotionally intimate with someone who is not your partner.

85. HayZeus - August 12, 2006

Here’s a related question. I absolutely refuse to believe in love at first sight for a variety of reasons, but have any of y’all ever had an experience in which you met someone of the opposite sex for the first time, looked right into his or her eyes, and immediately “clicked” (or “felt a connection” or however you want to put it), and if so, what was the result?

I remember answering a similar question from one of the Friday posts and my answer was based upon personal experience. It’s the only time it ever happened to me (and the relationship didn’t last long) but it had a pretty large impact on me at the time.

86. John - August 12, 2006

met someone

I have. In what I thought was a life altering way. At the end of _that_, I no longer believed in love at first sight.

My conclusion is that if you click, you click, but that is not indicative at all of the ability to have a long term relationship or to be happy with the person.

I prefer(ed) to find someone with whom I can click after 5 or 10 years. Mrs. John and I have gotten very deep with each other as we’ve ridden the waves of the last 8 years. That’s a good thing.

FWIW, I did know that I was going to marry her on the 4th date. On the first date I just wanted to watch the movie and get the pizza.

87. DaveinTexas - August 12, 2006

Nobody pay attention to anything I said on this thread.

I’m a moron

88. jayne - August 12, 2006

Mrs. Peel,
If your posts are any indication, I would guess that most men are intimidated by your intellect-a problem that I have never had. If that is the case, I would bet that out of every 5 men you meet, only one would have the nerve to ask you out. Just be patient until the one that you want comes along. It has to be mutual. And when he does show up, you will know how to send him the signs that he can ask you out without fear of rejection. It just works out that way.
As far as love at first sight is concerned-in my opinion that only happens when you are picking out a puppy! And even then it can be iffy.

89. Moses - August 12, 2006

They all loved me when they first saw me.

Except that dave-man guy.

90. geoff - August 12, 2006

Had the same experience as John – couple of serious relationships based on the immediate click, then a permanent relationship that grew out of just taking a girl out of fun.

The rush you get in the first few weeks of the “click” is fantastic, though.

I’m a moron

A gimpy moron at that. You and Mrs. Peel are vying for Least-Ambulatory Texan Commenter. But if you want to feel like a genius, go to RWS’s site and watch LOU!, Dorita/Fivor, Cory/Shanna, and JoeTx stumbling around.

91. Mrs. Peel - August 12, 2006

Chip Lady is still over there? Dude! Now that was some high-quality crazy.

Anyway, the one time I felt a connection with someone I’d just met never turned into a romantic relationship (we were both in long-term serious relationships that weren’t yet going pear-shaped at that point). But we were friends right away, and we’re good friends still. And I never make friends with people quickly.

Also, I submit this sentence from Dave: “It’s what Peter was talking about in Romans chapter 7″

92. steve_in_hb - August 12, 2006

“Another related question: Is there such a thing as emotional infidelity? In other words, there’s no physical component, but you’re emotionally intimate with someone who is not your partner.”

Yes, and women are the prime offenders. Many (most?) chicks have some guy who they essentially have a sexless boyfriend-girlfriend thing going with. By sexless, I mean unacted upon, not that there aren’t undertones. Generally, it’s a guy they would have been interested in if the timing was different. So they sort of do a letter of the law vs spirit of the law thing. No physical stuff, but intimacy way beyond the normal coworkers hitting happy hour level. Also, women are much more likely to let their friends and family interfere in a relationship.

I think men are less guilty of emotional infidelity because they are less likely to want an intimate relationship that doesn’t involve sex. Men’s fault tends to be emotionally checking out from the relationship. They don’t setup competing emotional relationships, they just withdraw from their partner. Basically, they stay in the relationship due to habit, sense of duty, kids, etc, but are sort of going through the motions.

93. Michael - August 12, 2006

Steve, I just picked up on this thread where I left off last night at Comment 81, and I thought it was you. I was freaking out until I finally checked the name again.

94. Michael - August 12, 2006

Peel, I’ve read somewhere that the “click” phenomona is real with respect to attraction (not love). People usually decide in about six seconds whether there is any sexual attraction, and their opinion doesn’t change after that.

I’ve also read that early atraction involve’s more than physical appearance, i.e., scent is a big factor. The article indicated that scent signals genetically compatible body chemistries, and possibly defects like alcoholism.

I can’t provide sources for any of this, so maybe it’s just bs.

If true, I guess the role of scent would explain why dancing is universally employed as part of the courtship ritual. Maybe it’s principally a sniffing exercise for sweaty couples. Just sayin’,

95. Moses - August 12, 2006

Peter, Paul…. circumcision, bacon. Shut up already, I was sleepy.

96. Dave in Texas - August 12, 2006

that was me, not the dog.

97. jayne - August 12, 2006

Whoa there Steve in HB-
You have the emotional infidelity thing completely backwards! At least from a womans perspective. In my experience it worked like this:
When a woman is unhappy in her marriage, men-her husbands friends-seem to sense it. They hang around, be very understanding, be a shoulder to cry on,all behind the husbands back. When the couple finally divorce, those same friends are right there to fix things around the house, take the kids out for ice cream, etc. and after the requisite 6 months, then they say, “Why don’t we go out?” Most women after a divorce do not want to date right away, so when these “good friends” asks her out, it hurts a lot, and she feels like every nasty thing her ex had said to her is true. So, basically, its opposite of the way you described it. And she realizes that he wasn’t even really listening all of that time, or he would know how she feels. This is especially true if the marriage that the woman was in was really bad, and these friends were well aware of the situation. Oddly enough, however, they do remain friends-they just never date.

98. digitalbrownshirt - August 12, 2006

I have to agree with the husband. It’s very close to impossible for a man to have a platonic friendship with a woman unless she’s absolutely hideous (maybe two heads, a hunchback and nasty acne scars).

Bad breath might be involved too.

99. lauraw - August 12, 2006

Is there such a thing as emotional infidelity? In other words, there’s no physical component, but you’re emotionally intimate with someone who is not your partner.

Definitely there is such a thing; a lot of people get into these relationships with people they know at work. There’s a false sense of intimacy from working together.

Some women use men this way to register unhappiness with their significant other, and get a thrill out of getting a sympathetic ear from a guy. Its usually a lonely guy or someone who is also having marriage problems.

Its a mistake, and a bad one.

Its cheating.

100. steve_in_hb - August 12, 2006

jayne –

1) I don’t know what your experiences have been, but none of my friends would try to use my failed SERIOUS relationship as a springboard to get laid. I give and expect 100% loyalty, my friends feel the same way. I will never betray my friends, and I know they will never betray me.

2) I wasn’t talking about the fallout from a failed relationship. I was addressing Mrs. Peel’s qustion about an ongoing relationship where one of the partners has a potentially inappropriate emotional relationship.

3) I stand by my assertion that women are more likely to have inappropriately close buddies. Men are more likely to betray the relationship by emotionally withdrawing.

101. steve_in_hb - August 12, 2006

lauraw –

Thank you for more clearly describing what I meant, and I agree it’s typically a coworker thing.

102. jayne - August 12, 2006

Thank you. We were evidently talking about two different things.

103. digitalbrownshirt - August 12, 2006

Definitely there is such a thing; a lot of people get into these relationships with people they know at work. There’s a false sense of intimacy from working together.

Some women use men this way to register unhappiness with their significant other, and get a thrill out of getting a sympathetic ear from a guy. Its usually a lonely guy or someone who is also having marriage problems.

Its a mistake, and a bad one.

Its cheating.

I’ve seen this exact scenario up close. It’s incredibly painful for everyone involved as well: the spouses, the children, extended family and friends.

104. digitalbrownshirt - August 12, 2006

My html skills are weak. Sorry.

105. HayZeus - August 12, 2006

The problem with trying to judge whether or not there is “emotional betrayal” is that one person’s betrayal is another person’s natural coping mechanism. Moreover, it’s often the case that one or both of the individuals in the relationship is using some device in order to deal with their unhappiness with their partner and if one begins splitting hairs about such things then one quickly gets drawn into judging whether or not these specific habits constitute a betrayal on the part of the partner.

Relationships fail for various reasons all the time but I personally don’t see the point in trying to label specific acts as emotional betrayal when the reality is always that the particular issues of one or both of the partners have displaced the love that made the relationship work.

106. coondawg - August 12, 2006

” Is there such a thing as emotional infidelity?
…Definitely there is such a thing…Its a mistake, and a bad one…Its cheating.”

Amen

The Guys who fall for that are dogs and scumbags, lampreys on the Sharks of love. The women are investing time and effort into dead-end relationships when the effort could better go into communicating with her man and stopping the passive aggressive bull-caca.

Also, guys who enthusiastically disagree with my earlier, horribly spelt comment on the doghood of man are just trying to win brownie points with the ladies. It’s a desperate way of trying to dog a girl…”I’m not like those animals….I can be friends with a girl….blah blah blah….” stfu.

107. John - August 12, 2006

I think men are less guilty of emotional infidelity because they are less likely to want an intimate relationship that doesn’t involve sex.

Steve is right. One of the counter-intuitive facts of life that I’ve discovered is that men are more Romantic than women. That’s big “R” romantic. Guys tend to be idealists about relationships – we expect things to be a certain way once we pass a certain point. And this isn’t just my experience. In this light, men emotionally withdraw when the “R”omanticism of the relationship is gone.

Women are stone cold killers by comparison. They are pragmatists who, as Laura and Steve have intimated, will find relationships to compensate for other relationships. Guys just withdraw.

108. HayZeus - August 12, 2006

One of the counter-intuitive facts of life that I’ve discovered is that men are more Romantic than women. That’s big “R” romantic. Guys tend to be idealists about relationships – we expect things to be a certain way once we pass a certain point. And this isn’t just my experience. In this light, men emotionally withdraw when the “R”omanticism of the relationship is gone.

While I think that this is a simplification to a certain extent my personal experience certainly bears out the truth of it.

109. John - August 12, 2006

Hey, Zeus. Of course it’s a simplification – I’m a 12th level Male Idealist. Simplification is what I do.

110. Feisty - August 12, 2006

God you people are hypercritical.

Talking to a male friend about your marriage troubles is cheating? Certainly, it would be ideal if the chick and the troubled husband discussed their troubles and left others out of it; however, if a woman is being treated poorly in a marriage and she feels comfortable discussing it with Man X, why should she not? Maybe the fact that Man X is a man is important to the discussion. Sometimes women and men interpret things differently or react to things differently and it’s hardly cheating to get a man’s opinion about man troubles. It’s actually more practical; getting a woman’s opinion about man-troubles is just bitching and moaning.

111. lauraw - August 12, 2006

Feisty, its a matter of degree, and what the woman is actually looking to get out of the exchange.

And a woman should think long and hard before she starts going to someone else’s shoulder with touchy emotional issues.

First of all, a marriage carries with it a tacit non-disclosure agreement, or it should.

My husband has been getting a kick out of this discussion; its not all that private, and every once in a while he looks at me in triumph with an “I told you so” look on his face.

But I doubt he’d be too happy with me going and blabbing truly sensitive and private information about our home life, just to selfishly present ‘my side’ with him unable to defend himself, and to gain a stranger’s sympathy.

112. steve_in_hb - August 12, 2006

Feisty, who made a feisty entrance –

1) In my response I never stated the relationship was deeply troubled. I was addressing a reasonably functional relationship, not a disintegrating one.

2) You are making the assumption that the Man is treating the Woman poorly. Why not the opposite? Or that, while both parties are well intentioned, they just can’t make things work.

3) Although I stated that I believed there was such a thing as emotional infidelity, I never said that ALL opposite sex friendships during marriage are inappropriate.

113. allendale2 - August 12, 2006

I wonder when will come the day that people (both male and female) realize that we’ll never think the same way. C’mon! haven’t you ever understood the “Boy meets girl” situation?
Can you imagine a guy looking a girl thinking: That’s a beautiful-looking woman, and seems like a real nice person, I’d realy like to meet her so we can be friends?. At the opposite end the woman is probably thinking: Oooh! Looks like a nice guy! Probably be interesting to meet if he weren’t giving me the dirty looks. And the beat goes on…

114. Feisty - August 12, 2006

I just have an overarching problem with women behaving as women being called “cheating.” Women like to/are wired to discuss problems with other people. Women like to/are wired to get approval/sympathy/feedback from other people. Women like to/are wired to talk about troubles with other people, maybe inappropriately some times. If a chick wants to talk about a problem, she’ll talk about a problem. If she does the dirty tango after discussing the problem with the other man, then that’s called “cheating”. I think there is no such thing as emotional cheating. Either you sleep with/make out with someone else or you don’t. What y’all are referring to as emotional cheating may just be a little intimacy incongruence, certainly it’s not to the degree of cheating.

i still can’t figure out how the original description of LauraW’s platonic friend doesn’t fall into her definition of “cheating” on her boyfriend. She “laughed and talked” with him all night while her boyfriend slept alone in the other room? I’m sure y’all talked about emotionally heated issues at least some of the time unless Laura’s like my grandma, who’s limit of controversial discussion is which weatherman is the most accurate.

Obviously, I’m not criticizing Laura and platonic friend’s relationship because I think it’s perfectly normal and healthy, but if someone else stays awake with a male friend and talks while her boyfriend sleeps alone, she’d probably call it “cheating” or “emotional cheating”.

115. lauraw - August 12, 2006

No; I don’t gossip about what goes on between me and my husband. Not even to close friends.

This whole post has been a first-time anomaly; and its not all that deep, anyway.

My friend and I talk about his kids, our folks, my work, and old times. Stuff like that. We don’t sit around getting menstrual together.

116. lauraw - August 12, 2006

And kid- I can call you kid because I’m ten years older- you were cocksure the other day that I HAD to have had some drunken interlude with the guy at some point.

Assuming that I’m easy- bad assumption. That was pretty cold.

117. geoff - August 12, 2006

Good threads, lauraw: you’ve got nearly 400 comments between this one and the one at Ace’s. Hope it was worth it to you, since you had to put with a lot of speculation, inquiry, and presumption on the part of the commenters.

118. Feisty - August 12, 2006

I was referring to your friend and you back in the good old days, not now….up all night chatting while the boyfriend slept alone. Knowing men, I’m sure The Boyfriend was waiting for you to get away from Platonic Male Friend and come to bed with him.

So now women friends can’t talk to each other about relationships at all? What the Hell are we supposed to talk about when I take you out for shots, Laura?

For the record, if anyone asks, my ex was a loving, kind soul who never did anything bad to me at all. I’m just crying and stressed out all the time for intrinsic reasons. My windows are bashed in? Oh, I didn’t notice. The bruise on my forehead….yeah, I’m clumsy.

Come on, Laura. Women can and SHOULD talk about troubles with girlfriends….major ones anyway. Little trival things are best dealt with alone, of course. Maybe you just haven’t had much bad happen.

119. HayZeus - August 12, 2006

Hey, Zeus. Of course it’s a simplification – I’m a 12th level Male Idealist. Simplification is what I do.

Yeah, I’m sure that’s the case. I just had to say it was a simplification because there’s usually an amount of months involved between the time that it becomes crystal clear that I am nothing more than a glorified teddy bear-cum ATM machine and the time that withdrawal starts it isn’t like the withdrawal starts as soon as the romance ends and the true work begins. Basically, I’m just assuaging my own bruised ego. ;)

120. lauraw - August 12, 2006

I’ll give you that…my head was still in the ‘seeking out strangers’ mode.

Yes. Very, very good girlfriends who know how to keep their mouths shut.
And Mom, of course.

Again, I think Steve and I are talking about destructive chatter in a normal relationship. Not what you’re talking about, which is effing criminal.

121. steve_in_hb - August 12, 2006

I don’t object to women in serious relationships having male friends and talking to them. I think it becomes a problem when

1) That emotional intimacy challenges or becomes more important than the intimacy between the couple

2) Deeply personal matters are consistently a source of fodder for public discussions.

Of course there’s a chicken and egg thing going on here – are outside intrusions causing trouble in the relationship, or are troubles in the relationship leading to outside intrusions?

I think you are approaching the issue based on your difficult, abusive relationship. You had to depend on the outside for positive emotions. While I’m approaching it from the perspective of someone who’s marriage failed despite both of us acting decently. There was always love and emotional support in my marriage, even at the end. We just couldn’t make it work.

122. Feisty - August 12, 2006

If I had nothing more than trival arguments and occasional tiffs, all I’d be doing is bragging up a storm to everyone I could find. I’d be dancing spontaneously in the streets with tears of joy streaming down my face.

That being said, in the case of normal non-criminal tiffs, if the chatter between a chick and a girlfriend or a chick and a male friend stays with the chosen friend only, then how does it hurt anything? The key is to choose wisely with your friend.

123. Bart - August 12, 2006

As usual, Bart has to come in and throw cold water on the subject by speaking in stark terms.

It boils down to this:
Let’s say we have two people, a man and a woman. They’ve been friends for many years. The man, we’ll call him Fred. The woman, we’ll call her Linda.

One day, Fred and Linda are alone. Fred goes to the bathroom and then comes out naked and says, “Let’s do it.” Most likely, Linda will say, “NO WAY.” She’ll be very disappointed and the relationship will be over.

On the other hand, if Linda emerged from the bathroom naked and said, “Take me, now!,” the probability that Fred will gladly bang Linda is 95%.

And that’s why a husband or a boyfriend will never EVER be totally comfortable with his wife/girlfriend having a male friend.

124. Michael - August 12, 2006

No; I don’t gossip about what goes on between me and my husband. Not even to close friends.

Good on ya, Laura. But close friends are not the issue. I’m guessing it’s really strangers where this often happens. At least, that’s been my experience.

Listen to Feisty:

Women like to/are wired to discuss problems with other people. Women like to/are wired to get approval/sympathy/feedback from other people. Women like to/are wired to talk about troubles with other people, maybe inappropriately some times.

This happens all the time to me. I’m on a business trip, killing time in the hotel bar, or I’m on a plane, and I say “hi” to the woman next to me. Before you know it, I’m hearing the most shockingly intimate details about her private life. I don’t know why this happens. It’s not like I come off as Mr. Sensitive And Caring or something. The only theory I have is that she unloads on me precisely because I’m a stranger (meaning I don’t really matter) and I’ve got adequate active listening skills.

Guys don’t do this, but I’ve bumped into a lot of women who do. It doesn’t surprise me any more. It makes for a more interesting evening than talking sports with other guys.

125. steve_in_hb - August 12, 2006

Michael –

It’s because they think you are gay ;-)

126. lauraw - August 12, 2006

*holding sides and laughing without making a sound*

*tears*

*tears, I tell you*

127. Michael - August 12, 2006

It’s because they think you are gay

Either that, or they think I’m the functional equivalent of gay — the Harmless Old Married Guy.

128. Mrs. Peel - August 12, 2006

Feisty, I think the argument is that in a committed relationship/marriage, you’re supposed to be each other’s emotional support. So once you start bringing problems (not relationship-related – I’m talking stuff like your dad being sick or stress at work) to someone else, then you’re forming an intimate relationship that is at least partially supplanting your committed relationship.

129. John - August 12, 2006

It’s a matter of priorities and class. Dave referred to it as being a gentleman. Another way of saying that is putting “we” before “me”.

Look, I may not be able to help every thought in my head, but I can give in to a base impulse or I can act in spite of it. This is really a situation-neutral statement that applies to whether or not I go to a strip club when I’m out of town on business to whether I talk with my single woman friends and let the conversation get “menstrual” (love that characterization).

I’m sure Mrs. John looks at it differently, but the results are the same. If she puts the depth of a throw away relationship in front of our day-to-day, then we would have a problem. If she calls her cousin (or my cousin for that matter) and has a conversation that was sensitive but well-intentioned, then there is no problem, just my ego. And Mrs John and I have dealt with that on a number of occasions. But you pick your battles – sometimes I’m just pissed and I get over it. Sometimes she gets pissed, and I roll over like a three legged chihuahua in the teeth of an Akita.

But an awful lot of chatter and “venting” isn’t well-intentioned, isn’t prioritized, and isn’t gentlemanly or ladylike. It’s self-serving and mean sprited. In Laura’s case that started this whole mess, it sounds like everything was above board and out in the open. Mr. Laura was miffed, as I would have been, but no real harm done. How far should he push, and is the damage worth it? There’s a difference between a threat and an annoyance, and good relationships have few of the former and a lot of the latter.

And if someone is in an abusive relationship, there’s no “we” worth saving. If “me” dies or is damaged in the service of “you”, there’s no “we” that’s worth a damn, anyway.

130. steve_in_hb - August 12, 2006

“…I’m the functional equivalent of gay…”

The jokes just write themselves.

131. John - August 12, 2006

You know, I hate when I post a well-intentioned missive that has to compete with Michael’s gay equivalency.

Michael, fwiw, that is the biggest equivalency that I’ve ever seen. Something to be proud of …

132. Michael - August 12, 2006

I have a gift. There’s no point in denying it.

133. Feisty - August 12, 2006

A gift? For me? How sweet. What is it? Secrets secrets are no fun.

134. Feisty - August 12, 2006

Hey Michael:

Wait for the song.

135. Michael - August 12, 2006

A gift? For me? How sweet.

Of course, honey, just for you. I’m guessing you’ve been drinking. Let’s move to email, OK?

136. Dave in Texas - August 12, 2006

I’ve been so stupid on this topic I’m just gonna shut my mouth.

Just got back from WTC. Gonna post about it on my moron blog, and pimp it here.

Long story short, no where near the impact that United 93 had on me. Cinematography and all? Very good. Oliver Stone knows his craft.

Story telling? Interesting. Just not riveting.

137. sandy burger - August 12, 2006

As to the question behind the question:

You should still continue your platonic friendship, LauraW. Good old friends are hard to come by.

138. Bart - August 12, 2006

…until he runs out of the bathroom naked. Then you should call it quits.

139. lauraw - August 12, 2006

There was never any doubt, my old friend Sandy.

Like I said, its just an interesting subject.

140. lauraw - August 12, 2006

Dammit Bart.

141. Michael - August 12, 2006

Is anyone else tired of this? I tried to put up an interesting post on AIDS. Or, you can scroll down for Mrs. Michael’s pics of Colorado wildflowers.

142. steve_in_hb - August 12, 2006

AIDS and wildflowers – is this more functionally gay stuff?

143. Michael - August 12, 2006

I mean, I don’t want to be sentimental or anything, but Mrs. Michael really worked hard to come up with some flower pics for Laura.

144. Michael - August 12, 2006

Steve, you exploited the hand-blogging thing to post a picture of yourself sporting more bling than most of us would even contemplate wearing. I’m thinking you are not in a position to crack wise about being functionally gay.

145. steve_in_hb - August 12, 2006

Yeah, the way I was making two girls recoil from my sexual aggressiveness really suggests I’m gay.

146. John - August 12, 2006

Hey, I just put up a non-gay shopping post disguised as a trip to the ladies room.

Where’s the pic of steve?

147. steve_in_hb - August 12, 2006
148. John - August 12, 2006

You’re the one on the right?

149. steve_in_hb - August 12, 2006

Yes, I’m the small filipina.

150. John - August 12, 2006

Oh, she’s the one on the left.

Seriously, that’s a great pic. Pretty funny.

151. steve_in_hb - August 12, 2006

Steve after eating a pot brownie and drinking about a 12 pack of beer.

152. John - August 12, 2006

Oh boy. Was that the beginning or the end of the night?

153. steve_in_hb - August 12, 2006

2/3 through. More boozing to go.

154. Russ from Winterset - August 13, 2006

Laura, I don’t know if you said it here, or on the repost over at Ace’s, but I noticed that you don’t relish the thought that your friend has probably had sexual thoughts about you at some point in your friendship.

Dave said it best: we’re wired that way. It’s not his fault, it’s just the way the male mind works.

May I suggest that you consider the fact that he’s never even hinted at these feelings to you to be evidence that he values your friendship? This relationship seems to be a good thing in your life, and I’d hate to think that anything one of us retards has said here might tarnish it in your mind (irregardless of whether what we’ve said is true or not).

I’ve had a few female friends where intimacy has crossed my mind, but the subject never came up either due to my respect for their current significant other, or respect for MY current significant other. I had one good friend in college who I would have “gone ballistic” with at the drop of a hat, but I valued her friendship and figured that it was her place to make the overtures before anything happened. Nothing ever came up, and we had a good time hanging out. I’ve also had female friends/acquaintances where I’ve made a pass and been shot down, and I’m still pretty close with a couple of them (who live in close proximity to me, I’m not sure if the friendship with the more distant ones suffered more from the distance or the hitting on them factor).

(super sekrit message to Mr. LauraW. You’re not out of line with the jealousy, and I think you’re a goodfella for not being a jerk about the situation.)

155. HayZeus - August 13, 2006

(Soooper sekrit message to Russ: I’m glad I’m not the only one that reads the llamas. ;)

156. Russ from Winterset - August 13, 2006

The llamas are my one concession to high culture. I like to think of them as the tuxedo t-shirt I wear sometimes when my “Who Farted?” sleeveless tee is in the wash.

Plus, they like to taunt Ardolino. That’ a positive in anyone’s book.

157. Lesbian Sex Free Lesbian Sex Videos Lesbian Sex Videos - March 9, 2008

Lesbian Sex Free Lesbian Sex Videos Lesbian Sex Videos

I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view

158. Badda Bing - August 11, 2009

I considered first the possible lameness of blogging on a discussion so antiquated by current event standards, but, then, after reading some of the posts, realized that this is an excellent discussion on which I could and should weigh in.
I think it really depends on a lot of factors. I had a great friend in high school, a girl named Alias_G—, who stimulated my mind like no other friend. She asked me to the prom in junior year, but I said no. In fact I was RUDE about it, something like [the fact that you have no date] “isn’t my problem!” So then came along the other smart boys, and in a year she’s effectively ‘betrothed’ to another guy. We continue our friendship. Never even a kiss throughout all the years–and it’s been over twenty since we’ve seen each other. However, she wasn’t really my type, appearance wise. NEVERTHELESS–I thought about her many times over the years, and frankly, had she been available, I would have looked her up (and down). So it just goes to prove that when you get right down to ‘it’, the round peg goes in the round hole and the vice versa, no matter how you dice it. Respecting her vows to her husband, and mine to my mate, I would feel comfortable in her company and she in mine, I’m sure. But there is a lot of crap in saying that there would be no hint or undertones of sexuality.

Anyone who wishes to argue that there would be no undertone of sex should give alternate motivational account for the vivified and energetic conversations that so readily take place on nearly all kinds of topics when men and women meet as friends.

159. reason - August 11, 2009

Free Lesbian Sex!
No longer shall you be bound!
…unless that’s your thing…

160. lauraw - August 11, 2009

Vivified!

Great word, Badda Bing. Thank you for that.

161. reason - August 11, 2009

And just so its clear,
After Laura posted this,
She hit it. Two times!

162. Dave in Texas - August 11, 2009

Is “vivified” when I’m talkin with my mouth open? Looks like I’m tryin to make words and sounds but it isn’t quite workin?

163. Badda Bing - August 11, 2009

Ok. I’m cornered. But it’s really a debate about ‘ideals’, in the Platonic sense and therefore trite and trivial, right? Is there a relationship anywhere in the universe between two beings of sexual opposites that can in any way be platonic at the level of the unconscious when the latter is taken to mean fully and completely Platonic–like never!

By the way, I count the lesbians as sexual opposites on account of their proclivities (often very nice ones at that). The question of platonic possibility is really no different even considering this factor.

Also, what did laura hit, 2 times? Sorry if this is none of my business but i’m a curious has been.

164. geoff - August 11, 2009

Is there a relationship anywhere in the universe between two beings of sexual opposites that can in any way be platonic

Not when one of them is packing lw’s mojo.

Also, what did laura hit, 2 times?

That was just reason trying to goad lw into putting on the stilettos and bringing out her whip.

165. Michael - August 11, 2009

Not when one of them is packing lw’s mojo.

Good point. I had never met Laura in real life when this thread occurred. She could have been a dog. Now, my sympathy for Mr. LW’s attitude is about triple what it was three years ago.

166. Mrs. Peel - August 11, 2009

Well, I still think it’s perfectly possible (at least for the less pleasantly favored among us) to have a completely non-sexual friendship with the opposite sex. I have several of them. I’m thinking of one guy in particular – rest assured there is absolutely ZERO romantic interest on either of our sides. We like each other well enough, we dance together, etc., but no. No, no, no, no, no. Noooooooooo.

167. The Other Guy In Particular - August 11, 2009

Her fingers type “No”, but her eyes say “Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeessssssssss!

168. harrison - August 11, 2009

…rest assured there is absolutely ZERO romantic interest on either of our sides.

So, he’s gay then.

169. Dave in Texas - August 11, 2009

We didn’t really cover that did we? Perfectly reasonable caveat though.

170. Mrs. Peel - August 11, 2009

He’s pretty effeminate, but he’s not gay.

171. lauraw - August 11, 2009

We like each other well enough, we dance together, etc., but no. No, no, no, no, no. Noooooooooo.

HEY. You know my buddy Frankie too?!??

Chickeh Peel, that dude wants you. YOU are too friggin’ adorable. And your face! I simply cannot imagine a dude looking down into that perfect little oval and not wanting to kiss it.

There’s no way. Noooo way.

172. Mrs. Peel - August 11, 2009

…I think lauraw might be hitting on me.

*looks around nervously* Michael isn’t watching, is he? *ogles the hump*

173. harrison - August 11, 2009

You girls just go right ahead…
don’t mind me…
I’ll just be over…

here…

174. Dave in Texas - August 11, 2009

>> I simply cannot imagine a dude looking down into that perfect little oval and not wanting to kiss it.

Me either, even though I say that as a guy old enough to be her dad. So I mean a young dude.

175. Vmaximus - August 11, 2009

heheh!

176. Michael - August 11, 2009

Dave told me that Mrs. Peel is a “spinner.” Does anyone know what that means? I guess it’s a reference to her swing dance moves.

177. Mrs. Peel - August 11, 2009

Michael, don’t be ugly. (No, I don’t know what that means, but I know it’s something nasty.)

178. Badda Bing - August 11, 2009

spinning is a bicycle exercise where you imagine relaxing scenes. I think…therefore I peel. Hey, Mrs. Peel–why are you called that? I have a nasty psoriatic patch, and it peels. Could it be love, Platonic or otherwise?

179. lauraw - August 11, 2009

I’m just sayin’

Back in June I was hanging out with her for a little bit and as a shorty myself it’s kind of novel to be looking down into somebody’s face, and we chicks notice things about each other.

Like great complexions, dreamy eyes and cute little kissy-lips.

-wait. What?

180. harrison - August 11, 2009

Bunk.

181. Mrs. Peel - August 11, 2009

we chicks notice things about each other

I know what you mean. I notice things like long wavy hair, sultry dark eyes, and smooth, sensuous lips. And a nice rack.

Badda Bing, here’s why.

182. Michael - August 11, 2009

I notice things like long wavy hair, sultry dark eyes, and smooth, sensuous lips. And a nice rack.

I don’t care about any of that. I just need a gal who won’t kill me while I sleep.

183. lauraw - August 11, 2009

*chuckle*

Yeah, good luck with that, Babe.

*sends email to Cathy’s secret account*

184. Dave in Texas - August 11, 2009

Setting realistic and achievable goals is important in a relationship.

So you should come up with one.

185. lauraw - August 11, 2009

And a nice rack bra.

FTFY

Peel is fixin’ to put on a NASA-approved Space Diaper, drive up here to CT, and taser my husband. I just know it. All the hallmarks are there.

Will resist as long as I can. AVENGE ME

186. lauraw - August 11, 2009

dang tags/

187. Dave in Texas - August 12, 2009

When Engineers Go Bad.

188. Mrs. Peel - August 12, 2009

*conceals rubber mallet behind back* Whatever are you talking about?

Hmm. Well, I guess all this answers the question of whether two people really can be just friends.

189. reason - August 12, 2009

I don’t think I can only be platonic friends with this thread anymore. I’ve grown to love it just too damn much.

C’mon thread…like Dave Matthews said…tomorrow we’ll go back to being friends…

190. reason - August 12, 2009

*cough…what I meant to say…*

My heart swells too large!
How long can the charade last?
I love you, This Thread.

191. lauraw - August 31, 2010

It was a funny thread.

And my buddy Frankie is coming to town this week!

YAAAAYYYYYY!!!!

*puts muscle relaxants in Scott’s breakfast bowl*

192. daveintexas - August 31, 2010

Sweeet!


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