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Conservative Studies on Campus? Conservatives and Liberals Equally Stunned September 28, 2007

Posted by skinbad in Economics, Philosophy, Politics.
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Capitalism and limited government at a public university? How can that be?

asked Robert Novak, conservative commentator and University of Illinois graduate.  Believe it or not, there are some wealthy alumni who’s wealth might make them fans of capitalism. They might even donate money to programs that reflect their beliefs and values. Of course ethnic disabled vajayjay celebration courses need funding as well. NTTAWWT. Some fear the conservative movement, though:

Some U of I faculty members fear that the group’s plans to raise money to pay for classes and research on free-market capitalism and limited government would create an undue conservative political influence on campus. They also complain that the new group was formed without faculty input.

Undue conservative political influence? That probably is a true threat to the academy. The irony is so rich, creamy, and cool, I think I could, actually, dip my, um, carrot sticks in it.

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Comments»

1. mesablue - September 28, 2007

GLAR?

2. Cathy - September 28, 2007

The more insulted and embarrassed the faculty felt when they heard about this, the better. Serves them right for not listening to concerns and complaints from those that butter their bread.

3. Lipstick - September 29, 2007

It’s about time!

Cracks me up that the professors are annoyed. Wouldn’t want to present two sides, that’s just wrong.

4. Michael - September 29, 2007

They also complain that the new group was formed without faculty input.

That’s the part that slays me. I’m sure the faculty have could offered all kinds of helpful advice about how to launch a program that supports economic and political principles that they despise.

5. Topsecretk9 - September 29, 2007

They also complain that the new group was formed without faculty input.

Michael, that just says to me the faculty realize how venerable they are…the students are smarter than the teachers.

6. Beth - September 29, 2007

Remind me again why I want to send my daughter to Liberal Indoctrination Camp when she’s 18? I’m having a hard time with that one.

Eh, nevermind. Sooner or later when the “progressives” stop breeding, our kids can bring education back to higher education.

7. tsaari - September 29, 2007

Is this really a surprise?

8. Michael - September 29, 2007

Thanks, Laura! I finally noticed your link to this post at AOSHQ.

9. digitalbrownshirt - September 29, 2007

Remind me again why I want to send my daughter to Liberal Indoctrination Camp when she’s 18? I’m having a hard time with that one.
Send them to the military instead. Mine left for bootcamp on Wendesday.

10. Odale - September 29, 2007

I’m almost in agreement with the military comment. The experience of travel has a lot to offer…under normal circumstance…I’m glad I didn’t go in 2007, and I feel for these/those that do, but I don’t think this should be a shocking revelation.

11. geoff - September 29, 2007

I’m almost in agreement with the military comment. The experience of travel has a lot to offer…under normal circumstance

If that’s why you’re joining the military, you’re making a mistake. If the concepts of honor, duty, and love of country are foreign to you, you should become a flight attendant, not a military professional.

12. Helen - September 29, 2007

Oh geez!! The “profs” used the big F word–they “fear” that someone might reveal that university faculty are intellectually naked, vapid, insipid, and overpaid.

13. W.F. Heldmyer - September 29, 2007

Umm…

But wouldn’t that possibly (subject to testing and so on), possibly mean that there would be MORE wealthy almuni?

Happy, rich, educated alumni that might think well of a University that helped make them so… and include them in philanthropic considerations and wills and so on?

Just thinkin’ out loud…

14. Retired Geezer - September 29, 2007

DBS our prayers are with your son, Brian.

RG and Mrs. G

15. Odale - September 29, 2007

Sorry, Geoff, did not mean to imply that at all and am glad you called attention to it! I was really being sarcastic b/c of the “state of the union” under Bush. I was raised as a military dependent and have plenty of family serving…pros and cons in anything…I am well aware of loyalty and dedication in whatever one pursues! And by “glad I didn’t go in 2007″, I meant school, but I also have “up and comings” there! Sorry for the confusion, there’s enough of that! I never stop praying!

16. Ham - September 29, 2007

Imagine the Professors surprise when they someday realize the Board of Trustees actually run Colleges “for profit”. They obviously don’t pay the groundskeepers the same as tenured instructor; don’t they recognize the class struggles in their own organizations???

17. Bart - September 29, 2007

7. Is this really a surprise?

I’m going to go out on a limb here and elaborate what I think was implied by our new little friend, tsaari: This is all part of the Neocon Jew Zionist’s plan, thanks to puppet Bush’s Patriot Act, to control the world.

18. politicaloutsider - September 30, 2007

Holy Crap. Let’s see what happens. When Hell freezes over there will be too much conservative influence on a state college or university, or any college campus without an overtly christian mission.

19. rhbee - September 30, 2007

I was reading post at the Simple Dollar by Trent about why a student should take history classes at university and he mentioned taking a year course where one semester was taught from conservative point of view and the other semester presented the same material from a liberal viewpoint. The students were thus given a chance to hear both sides and decide for themselves what made sense. Pretending that you want to educate when you really want to indoctrinate is wrong no matter which side tries it.

20. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

You seem to be scandalized that a majority of highly educated people in academia would overwhelmingly vote for Bush over Gore. That’s like being scandalized by finding out that eight year olds prefer cotton candy to brussel sprouts. When you are so nakedly anti-intellectual that you use phrases like ‘ethnic disabled vajayjay celebration courses’ to display your contempt and scorn for what you percieve to be academia, how can you be surprised that academics don’t embrace you? It would be like if I were to call the posters to this board ‘ignorant, superstitious, cousin-humping, hillbilly bigots’-should I expect them to think that I am right? Some of them might take offense at such a characterization.
I can think of at least one solid reason academia is primarily liberal; when conservatives try to do academics they come up with garbage like ‘Intelligent Design’, wheras liberal secular heathen scientists give us things like moder medicine, which kind of work better than that whole ‘ID’ thing.
Oh, and if conservatives are all about free markets and government non-interference please explain the relationship between Halliburton, Blackwater, etc and the Bush Administration. It doesn’t seem like those guys are playing in the same free markets as the rest of us.
-WD

21. PattyAnn - September 30, 2007

“scandalized that a majority of highly educated people in academia would overwhelmingly vote for Bush over Gore”

Were they nakedly anti-intellectual?

22. Bart - September 30, 2007

When you are so nakedly anti-intellectual that you use phrases like ‘ethnic disabled vajayjay celebration courses’ to display your contempt and scorn for what you percieve to be academia…

Perceive? It’s right there in black and white, winston.

23. Bart - September 30, 2007

By the way, you’re first sentence doesn’t make any sense, winston.

24. daveintexas - September 30, 2007

how can you be surprised that academics don’t embrace you?

You’re like, totally lost on this aren’t you? You imagine anyone cares if academics embrace them?

How old are you?

25. BrewFan - September 30, 2007

It would be like if I were to call the posters to this board ‘ignorant, superstitious, cousin-humping, hillbilly bigots’

And your point is?

26. BrewFan - September 30, 2007

It would be like if I were to call the posters to this board ‘ignorant, superstitious, cousin-humping, hillbilly bigots’

Actually that would be inaccurate because to the best of my knowledge there are no Minnesota Vikings fans that comment here.

27. Michael - September 30, 2007

It would be like if I were to call the posters to this board ‘ignorant, superstitious, cousin-humping, hillbilly bigots’-should I expect them to think that I am right?

Apart from the cousin-humping, that’s pretty accurate.

Not that I didn’t try to hump my cousin . . .

28. sandy burger - September 30, 2007

wheras liberal secular heathen scientists

Interestingly, the science departments typically have the most conservative professors on campus. It’s in the humanities departments that the professors take leftism to such comical extremes.

Longing for your embrace…

29. Michael - September 30, 2007

please explain the relationship between Halliburton, Blackwater, etc and the Bush Administration.

OK. The Bush Administration is the subsidiary that Halliburton set up to acquire foreign oil. Blackwater is a subsidiary of the Bush Administration that was set up to kill civilians.

Don’t you read the paper?

And how is this inconsistent with free markets? We’re just competing with China.

30. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

Brewer fan-
Sorry about your team. Go Cubs!
Patty Ann-
If Bush and Co aren’t nakedly anti-intellectual, then they’re only wearing a thong.
Bart-
Patty Ann seemed to understand it. Have her explain it to you.
Daveintexas-
I am 37 years old. I don’t think anybody cares whether they are embraced by academics, it’s just that I don’t see how name calling makes anyone seem mature.
Michael-
It’s good to embrace your inner hillbilly, just don’t embrace your sister! I generally don’t read the papers because they’re full of nonsense. It’s very inconsistent with free markets because we are bankrupting the Nation for the profit of individuals. That’s not free markets, it’s robber barony. (Before everyone assumes I’m a Marxist, I would like to pre-emptively point out that among other things I am a small business owner who actually has no desire to be regulated and taxed out of my small business. It’s just that thievery is bad for business.)
Sandy-
Naturally humanities types are going to tend towards liberalism-very few people complete a master’s degree in say, social work and come out the other end a Neo-Con. By studying other cultures and viewpoints other than one’s own, there is an inevitable opening of the mind that occurs. This doesn’t make them correct or infallible-far from it. Ivory towers are very isolating in their own way and the excesses of political correctness are often as ridiculous as anything you hear on the right. If you want comical extremes, they can be found everywhere these days. BTW-I am not an academic, so my embrace will mean nothing to you. I don’t even have a college degree. Sorry to disappoint.
-WD

31. BrewFan - September 30, 2007

BTW-I am not an academic

You have got to be kidding me! You could knock me over with a feather right now.

32. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

BrewFan-
Nope. I’ve read some books, tho’.
-WD

33. BrewFan - September 30, 2007

Lets see how smart you really are. In the following word group, which word does not belong:

Woman, Drum, Sex

34. daveintexas - September 30, 2007

it’s just that I don’t see how name calling makes anyone seem mature.

From a person who throws the charge of anti-intellectual and asserts “we’re smarter than you” (although you didn’t finish a degree).

Well East Texas State smarted me right up pal. I’m not nakedly anti-intellectual, I’m nakedly anti-asshole. Please proceed to go fuck yourself.

best!

35. Mrs. Peel - September 30, 2007

fyi, scientists actually do lean liberal, while engineers lean conservative. This difference will be evident to anyone who has worked with engineers and also attempted to work with scientists. I say “attempted to” in the latter case because it’s pretty damn hard to get any actual work done when the people who are supposed to be the brains are off in la-la land, doing stuff that has absolutely no relation to what you have tasked them to do, and completely ignoring their deadlines.

36. BrewFan - September 30, 2007

Bzzzt! Times up.

Sex.

37. Russ from Winterset - September 30, 2007

Once again, Mrs. Peel says what I’m thinking.

I’d just like to add that engineers tend to be more conservative than scientists because engineers are judged by the concrete results they produce out in the real world, while scientists are judged by the wildly optimistic promises they make about whatever their current endeavor happens to be. Scientists make promises, while engineers take the promises made by scientists and somehow make the damn things work in reality.

Scientists in academia are even worse shape than regular scientists: They’ve got the additional worry of monitoring the progress of all the transgendered left-handed Samoan soccer fans and making sure that their grades match or exceed the privlidged elites making up the rest of the class.

38. PattyAnn - September 30, 2007

Bart, I think I understood exactly what you understood.
WD’s blog is all about art. Art with a capital “A”. Every other word of text is in a different color.
Let him annoy us here; he needs something constructive to do with his time. It’s the Christian thing to do.

39. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

Daveintexas-
Since I never said anything remotely like ‘we’re smarter than you’ I’ll just have to assume that your confusion results from your fine education. (I don’t even know who the ‘we’ is supposed to be as I only speak for myself-I think you’re having an imaginary confrontation and conflating me with the people who make you feel small and impotent in your daily life) I suppose I really touched a nerve to get you so riled up. You shouldn’t feel insecure just because you’re a rude Texan. I’m sure you have plenty of other reasons to feel insecure-after all, I wasn’t addressing you in particular when I made these comments. I just held up a cloth and you decided it was cut to your fit. I didn’t tell you to put it on. In fact, I would suggest taking it off because you don’t wear it well-you are obviously a very cultured and sophisticated individual. Does that make you feel better, big guy?
PS-Don’t misquote me, asshole. My actual words are right there for you to argue with. If you want to argue with the voices in your head, do it someplace else.

Brewfan-
See, I would have said ‘drum’. But then, I’m a Cubs fan and we’re congenital idiots. ;-)

-WD

40. Mrs. Peel - September 30, 2007

Once again, Mrs. Peel says what I’m thinking.

*high-fives Russ*

So on top of the jackass scientists at work who never do what they’re supposed to do, right now, I’m dealing with these women in engineering people at school. Somehow, they got my email address (I guess the department gave it to them), and started spamming me about their group. I asked to be removed from their mailing list, but they kept spamming me, so I sent them the following email:

“Please remove me from your mailing list as I requested. I have very strong feelings against programs that discriminate against people based on characteristics, such as chromosomal condition, over which they have no control. My opinion of such unfair behavior does not change simply because I belong to the currently favored group. As such, I cannot support your organization, and would prefer not to receive its mailings.”

That got results, as you might imagine. But now, they’ve gone and enrolled me in their stupid course on Blackboard (an online thingy that lets professors post course documents and your grades and such; they’re using it to post announcements about whatever discriminatory thing they’re doing this week). GRRR.

41. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

Patty Ann-
Thank you for the compliment! I’m so flattered that you glimpsed my blog. I’m sorry if all the colors were distracting. But you are right, I am an artist, and therefore can be dismissed as an annoyance. After all, artists don’t contribute anything to society and are generally contrarian and obnoxious, to say nothing of their vile personal habits!
-WD

42. daveintexas - September 30, 2007

as the rest of us = plural, i.e. more than one, i.e. “we”.

Being called an asshole by you puts a shine on my Sunday.

43. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

Patty Ann-
I just checked out your blog and it is AWESOME!!!! All the text is the SAME COLOR!!!!! NEAT!!!!! I loved your quote about how independents are like bisexuals-so pithy, wise, and Christian!!!! In fact, I bet Jesus would have said exactly the same thing. You should be proud.
-WD

44. lauraw - September 30, 2007

By studying other cultures and viewpoints other than one’s own, there is an inevitable opening of the mind that occurs.

That is off the mark by a lot. Many of us- including our American forefathers- certainly studied other cultures and understood the viewpoints of other cultures. And continued to prefer our own.

I’m talking to you as someone whose parents are both immigrants. I wouldn’t trade my life here or my American cultural heritage for that of my grandparents’, not even on their best day in the Old Country. No damn way.

Your ‘opening of the mind’ is merely moral relativism; the PC inability or unwillingness of the indoctrinated to state a preference for one culture over another. This is the natural result of academia’s leftist tutorship and marxist pap-mongering.

They don’t tell the truth about our country, or other countries. Their distorted pinhole-view is all that’s taught. As a result, we have legions of pampered, complaining, American 20-year olds who enjoy every luxury granted to them by technology, but disparage the industries which make them possible.

And 45-year old idiots who think that people living in stone age dictatorships in far away lands are living a great life and that they should not be allowed to progress as we ourselves eagerly have moved on from that condition.

In my humble estimation, it is more open-minded to believe that the American experiment (Democracy, free speech, guaranteed rights, etc.) is the birthright of man, and rid ourselves of this horrid infection of moral relativism which is in fact assisting the repression and mass murder of innocent peoples across the globe.

45. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

Daveintexas-
Glad I could help, partner. That’s what I am here for. However, I still only speak for myself. Are you part of the Bush Administration, Halliburton, or Blackwater? If so, then that’s the only way the ‘we’ would actually be applicable, and if that is the case, then I mean it wholeheartedly because I am talking about ‘we the people; not ‘you, the criminals’. Otherwise, you’re projecting on me, dude.
Have a nice Monday, while you’re at it.
-WD

46. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

Lauraw-
You certainly sound like someone with an open mind…

Understanding another culture doesn’t mean hating your own. For example, I understand the culture of Texans, but I still love being a Chicagoan. I understand the cultures of Asia, but I’m not moving to Beijing.
Conversely, seeing your own cultures with open eyes can be very useful so that you might improve it. For example, Chicago sports fans need to understand that their teams inherently suck so that they won’t have their spirits broken when they miss making it to the World Series by five outs.
Let me put it this way. I believe America is the Shining City on the Hill, but the streets still need repairs and the lightbulbss have to be changed regularly to keep it that way. Sitting around in a self-satisfied stupor convinced of our inherent superiority is not going to keep the city shining.
-WD

47. daveintexas - September 30, 2007

Speaking for himself…

Naturally humanities types are going to tend towards liberalism-very few people complete a master’s degree in say, social work and come out the other end a Neo-Con. By studying other cultures and viewpoints other than one’s own, there is an inevitable opening of the mind that occurs. This doesn’t make them correct or infallible-far from it. Ivory towers are very isolating in their own way and the excesses of political correctness are often as ridiculous as anything you hear on the right.

That was kinda lost on you, wasn’t it?

48. stupid typical fucking moonbat© - September 30, 2007

I agree with winston. If we leave academia in the hands on conservatives, we’ll get courses like ID and “Shooting Old Men in the Face 101.”

49. Russ from Winterset - September 30, 2007

Jeebus, Winston. Did somebody piss in your cheerios this morning?

You “don’t see how name calling makes anyone seem mature”, while calling anyone who disagrees with you “anti-intellectual”, or “a rude Texan”, and trying to tie in Intelligent Design, Halliburton/Blackwater and “Bush & Co.” to the conversation.

I’ll tell you what: just to prove to you that I’m not totally adverse to intellectual pursuits, I’m going to do a cost/benefit analysis of having a civil conversation with you about the reality of the perception of many conservatives about liberal bias in academia.

COST: time required to establish a relationship with you and agree on terms and definitions regarding our debate. Acual historical facts will also have to be established, which, depending on your level of BDS, could take years of intensive negotiation.

BENEFIT: Once trust is established, we might be able to repair the rift in American political discourse.

COST: While I’m dealing with you, other details such as my personal life, the economic well being of this nation, foreign nations that do NOT have the best interests of America & her citizens at heart, and outright monsters who want to kill or convert all those who are not like them will all have to take a backseat to our conversation.

BENEFIT: If I’m talking to you, nobody can blame me for Iran getting a working nuclear bomb & turning Israel & Miami into smoldering craters. Of course, blaming ME will be the last thing on the minds of the survivors, but that will be a small benefit to my peace of mind.

(You know what…………This isn’t worth it. I was all set to make a “shaggy dog” post working up to a dismissal of your arguments, but you’re not worth my time. You’re just another ass-clown leftist moron who googled “People who are smarter & better adjusted than me”, and found yourself taking a large, smelly dump in our particular corner of the inter-web-thingy. Piss off, troll. You’re not worth my time.)

50. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

Daveintexas-
Just because I don’t live in an ivory tower doesn’t mean I don’t understand it. I’m not speaking for anyone there-I think many of them would disagree strongly with at the very least the second half of the above statement. I’m describing what I see there. There’s a difference.
However, this is an improvement! You are at least challenging things I actually wrote rather than your paranoid fantasies! Good for you!
-WD

51. lauraw - September 30, 2007

Winston at comment #46:

“Understanding another culture doesn’t mean hating your own.”

Exactly my point. Thank you sir.

Now tell that to my unabashedly marxist Econ 101 professor who was teaching precisely the opposite of that notion to a classroom of malleable kids.

52. daveintexas - September 30, 2007

You are at least challenging things I actually wrote rather than your paranoid fantasies!

My bad. My paranoid fantasies involve an avocado and you in biker shorts.

53. Russ from Winterset - September 30, 2007

Wintston,

I’m sorry to cut our relationship short, but ESPN Classics is showing “The Fish that Saved Pittsburgh” right now, and I really need to concentrate on the movie without any distractions, since my pitiful little I.D.-addled conservative brain cannot handle complex discussions and intellectual movies at the same time. Plus, I’ve got to clean some guns tonight, and if I have some free time after that, I’ll bash some gays, take away the college funds of poor minority children, and finish it all off by strangling some endangered critters with my bare hands.

I’m sure you understand. If you need someone to talk to, my friend Geoff specializes in a particular form of “therapy” that may do you quite a bit of good.

54. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

Russ-
Considering that I haven’t addressed you once, you took this very personally. I’m sorry. Actually, I found this because it was shoved in my face when I logged into my wordpress account. If you don’t want people shining a light on your conversation, please don’t make the blog and comments section public.

I did not call everyone who disagrees with me ‘anti-intellectual’. I said that Skinbad using phrases like ‘ethnic disabled vajayjay celebration courses’ is anti-intellectual. I stand by that assessment and do not see how it is name-calling.
Furthermore, if we are talking about introducing ‘Conservative Studies’ on campus, it’s perfectly valid to bring up ID-that’s been the pet cause that conservatives have been trying to get everyone to study, right? And if we’re going to talk about conservative economic theory, it is perfectly legitimate to talk about conswervative economic practice which we have seen in action for the past six years.
I don’t know why you think it would be difficult to establish consensus on historical fact unless you have some crazy ideas as to what constitutes historical fact.

I’m not a troll. This is my face and real name. I enjoyed watching you argue with yourself while pretending it’s me. It was a funny puppet show!
-WD

55. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

lauraw-
I think you hit the nail on the head-many of you are venting your anger at your professors on me. I’m not defending every asshole you’ve ever had to deal with in the classroom. Many professors are petty tyrants who are convinced of their own divine infallibility. Why do you think I never finished college? ;-)
-WD

56. stupid typical fucking moonbat© - September 30, 2007

winston, you’re right to be alarmed and nervous about this development. Conservatives would try to stop great “cutting edge” courses being taught in our top schools, such as Interspecies Communication: Can We Really Talk with the Animals?.

57. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

Daveintexas-
You wouldn’t want to see me in biker shorts. It’s real ugly.
-WD

58. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

Russ-
I’m sorry you’re so paranoid and angry. We don’t have a relationship, dude. You don’t know anything about me. One small example:

I am in favor of private gun ownership.

Ta daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasshole.
-WD

59. cranky - September 30, 2007

WD, is small business owner who is an artist just another way of saying you haven’t yet figured out what you want to be when you grow up? Based on what you have written here, I’m sure that your goal of finding a position in the “Superior to You” field is going to be a hard row to hoe. At least you’ve got the superior attitude down pat, if not the actual superior part.

60. daveintexas - September 30, 2007

I didn’t say you’d be wearing the shorts, at least not in the customary sense.

61. PattyAnn - September 30, 2007

Oh, no! WD thinks “my” blog is cute! And neat! And Christian.
He must’ve spent a long time there checking that out.

“Funny puppet show?” I knew it was Gleen.

62. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

winaton-
I am not alarmed or nervous. Ideas have to stand on their own two feet or they die. In a worst case scenario, we’ll weaken science standards and start teaching ID. After a generation or so, standards will be so bad that we’ll have to go back to the real science.

I base this on the example of the Soviet misadventure with the rejection of Darwinian evolution and Mendellian genetics because they weren’t ‘ideologically compatible’ with Communism. Scientific dissent of Lysenko’s ideas of environmentally acquired inheritance were outlawed and the Soviet Union fell behind in the biological sciences for more than a generation. Eventually they realized their mistake. ID=Lysenkoism.
-WD

63. Mrs. Peel - September 30, 2007

So…it’s anti-intellectual to think that “women’s studies” is a course of study that involves little more than regurgitating the latest leftist cant? Well, chalk me up in the anti-intellectual column, then.

By the way, given you’re the one talking about not putting words in people’s mouths, perhaps you should find some examples of commenters here actually supporting ID before you mouth off about it.

64. daveintexas - September 30, 2007

He’s not projecting Mrs. Peel. He said that many times.

65. lauraw - September 30, 2007

Winston, you speak disingenuously out of both corners of your mouth and are no longer worth my time. I suspect you are an insane Ron Paul Trutherbot critter.

Rest of you guys, see ya tomorrow. Sleep tight, darling shnookums.

66. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

Cranky-
Oh, you’ve figured me out! Cut to the quick! Ah, I am bleeding…

Oh… no, you’ve got it all wrong. So sorry. My mistake. Try again. No, really, do. It’s hilarious.

I will send fifty dollars to the person who can guess what my actual 40 hour a week occupation is. I’m serious.
-WD

67. stupid typical fucking moonbat© - September 30, 2007

I found this because it was shoved in my face when I logged into my wordpress account.

winston, I’m sick of these rightwing corporate fascist puppets imposing their propaganda on everyone. They’ve infested the internet and hide behind these phony “non-political” blogs with their “innocent” posts about dogs and recipes.

68. daveintexas - September 30, 2007

nite kid, same here.

69. Michael - September 30, 2007

it’s perfectly valid to bring up ID-that’s been the pet cause that conservatives have been trying to get everyone to study, right?

No. At least not me. As a conservative fundamentalist Christian, I think ID is bullshit.

70. Michael - September 30, 2007

Well, I shouldn’t say bullshit. It’s an interesting idea. Suffice it to say that every testable hypothesis that ID has come up with has turned out to be false. Meaning, ID is not bullshit, it’s just not science.

71. geoff - September 30, 2007

I said that Skinbad using phrases like ‘ethnic disabled vajayjay celebration courses’ is anti-intellectual.

…or it could be humorous conservative shorthand for a series of long-established arguments concerning the dubious academic validity of departments and courses which focus on victimization rather than achievement.

Another humorless wannabe pedant.

72. winstondelgado - September 30, 2007

Everyone-
Thank you all for making me feel so welcome. I have never spent a Sunday evening in front of the television with a warmer and more charming group of people. Your hospitality is legendary.

There’s nothing I love more than people taking a pause from sneering at handicapped people to call me names. Really, it’s great. At least now you’re picking on someone who can fight back. I can tell you don’t like that. You prefer your sneering go unchallenged. Am I supereior to you? Only if sneering makes you superior. And I am the first to admit that it doesn’t. Nonetheless, I thank God in Heaven that I’m not waking up to your life tomorrow. Good luck with that.
Goodnight.
-WD

73. cranky - September 30, 2007

Winston, I’m going to guess your full time gig is Asshole. Is it a union position? Much overtime?

Good night good people.

74. geoff - September 30, 2007

I see Mrs Peel at #63 beat me to my point. Typical. No respect for her elders.

75. Anonymous - September 30, 2007

There’s nothing I love more than people taking a pause from sneering at handicapped people to call me names.

Someone was getting an adrenaline rush.

76. pjmomma - September 30, 2007

ooops, that was me, sorry

77. stupid typical fucking moonbat© - September 30, 2007

They also sneer at minorities, winston.

And ponies.

78. geoff - September 30, 2007

One of the biggest fallacies shared among libs is that a liberal political philosophy is synonymous with open-mindedness. It’s a semantic trick they employ on themselves, as well as their ideological opponents. You can see from the reaction described in the post just how open-minded liberals are.

79. daveintexas - September 30, 2007

That’s just like her to steal your thunder geoff.

punk.

80. geoff - September 30, 2007

There’s nothing I love more than people taking a pause from sneering at handicapped people to call me names.

And Winsty lurches about with the goalposts. Originally the argument was (correctly) that we were mocking academia. Now he claims we were mocking the handicapped.

Not very intellectual.

81. pjmomma - September 30, 2007

He whipped out every conservative stereo type in the book.

I gotta hand it to him though as he fit the moobat criteria to a tee. He used every liberal talking point there is.

bushhalliburtonblackwater

82. geoff - September 30, 2007

That’s just like her to steal your thunder geoff.

Isn’t it? Fortunately WDG has provided us with a wealth of inanity to pick apart, so there’s plenty to go around. As long as Mrs. P. takes off the troll feedbag once in awhile, that is.

83. geoff - September 30, 2007

Your hospitality is legendary.

It ought to be. How many times did y’all show him the door?

84. Mrs. Peel - September 30, 2007

Sorry, geoff. Next time, I will make a chart of everything we should say, and we can trade off on who gets to make which point.

Troll’s right about one thing, though. You guys do mock the handicapped all the time. At least one of them. *sulks*

(Just to relieve any guilty consciences: yes, I’m kidding.)

85. geoff - September 30, 2007

At least now you’re picking on someone who can fight back. I can tell you don’t like that.

Continuing with the goalpost theme. Academics can’t fight back? It’s so sad that their all their vaunted intellectual empowerment cripples their argumentation skills.

Oh, he meant the handicapped? The people we never picked on? Talk about tilting at windmills.

86. geoff - September 30, 2007

Next time, I will make a chart of everything we should say, and we can trade off on who gets to make which point.

A chart? You really know my weak points.

I’ll take the odds, you take the evens.

You guys do mock the handicapped all the time.

Yes, we should be more sensitive to the young.

87. Russ from Winterset - September 30, 2007

Winston’s profession can’t possibly be “asshole” since he refers to it as his “40 hour a week gig”. I can’t believe that a “suuuuuuuuper genius” like Mr. Winston could limit himself to 40 hours of assholishness in a week’s time.

That brings up the point that made me turn the computer back on & post this reply: You’re lying & I think I can prove it.

You refer to yourself as a successful businessman without a college degree who dislikes corporate robber barons – but you also refer to your profession as a “40 hour a week gig”. I am a small businessman, and interact with other small businessmen & women on a daily basis, and I have NEVER met one of them who clocks out when their timesheet reads 40 hours per week.

I don’t think it’s impossible to be successful without a college degree (duh, does Bill Gates ring a bell?), but every successful non-college grad I know works his/her ass off to stay successful. You know what kind of businessman/woman is successful working a mere 40 hours a week? The kind that either underpay their help, or overcharge their clients, which makes your dislike of robber barons a signal to me that you’re not one of these people.

My guess for your profession? Are you one of the guys who shleps the tray full of lukewarm Old Style up and down the stairs out in the bleachers at Wrigley Field? Don’t get me wrong – that’s a honorable way to make a living, but it hardly qualifies you to lecture all of us on the TRUE leanings of academia. I was gonna guess that your livelihood involves blowing guys for $50 a pop in an alley off Lower Wacker Drive, but that’s not the sort of thing you ask a new acquantaince about, now is it?

88. geoff - September 30, 2007

Well back to quantum, studying for my test on Wednesday. I’m on p. 45 of my easy-reader quantum book, and I’ve got to get through p. 300 by morning, doing all the problems along the way. Then I move to the more advanced texts on Monday and Tuesday. And somewhere between now and Wednesday morning I have to get my next lecture written up (currently only about 15% finished).

Talk about hating academia.

89. Mrs. Peel - September 30, 2007

Oh yeah? Well, I have to do a hardware test on Friday. From 8 A.M. to midnight. That’s right, sixteen hours straight.

Anyway, I guess your troubles mean that I shouldn’t link to this cool new game I just discovered. I haven’t gotten past the first section yet…

90. eddiebear - October 1, 2007

Shit, I spend a weekend at Homecoming and trying to have some fun(since the Rams suck ass), and look at what happens.

Winston:

Just a bit of advice:

Notice your comments weren’t blocked/deleted/banned, and you weren’t blocked from the site? Why not try that sort of freedom on your site?
And if you’re an artist, is that the kind who stands on the street corner with their guitar case open, or the kind who has to telemarket until you “catch a break”?

91. eddiebear - October 1, 2007

Might I clarify:

My undergrad’s homecoming. My daghter had a blast going down some gigantic inflatable slide with me, and I had plenty of cheap beer.

92. skinbad - October 1, 2007

Geoff made me touch my finger to my nose. Stop that, Geoff!

I said that Skinbad using phrases like ‘ethnic disabled vajayjay celebration courses’ is anti-intellectual.

…or it could be humorous conservative shorthand for a series of long-established arguments concerning the dubious academic validity of departments and courses which focus on victimization rather than achievement.

I confess. I was exaggerating. Winston can feel free to strike out either “ethnic” or “disabled” from that sentence. BUT NOT BOTH!

93. Sneering at @$$holes « Teahouse of the Furious Buddha - October 1, 2007

[...] at @$$holes My new friends. (my comments start around [...]

94. eddiebear - October 1, 2007

So I left a comment on Winnie’s site. Let’s see how long he lets it stay.

95. Mrs. Peel - October 1, 2007

I have a feeling that the comments to troll’s post won’t be as sweet as the ones to euphro’s. “Oh, my darling euphro, you are sooooo smart! Your intellect pierces through the shadows of ignorance like a laser! Don’t comment over there with those troglodytes! All they know is ‘ugg, fire bad’!”

Uggh. Scary adventure game bad. Need read happy book before bed so not have bad dream.

Ouch! Knuckles bleeding again. Ground too hard. :-(

96. eddiebear - October 1, 2007

Well, euphro deleted every critical comment. And I still can’t find the proof of mocking disabled people on this thread.

97. stupid typical fucking moonbat© - October 1, 2007

What if winston’s mother read this filth?

You all should be ashamed of yourselves for mocking the handicapped. You owe the disabled community an apology.

98. sandy burger - October 1, 2007

Winston wrote:
Since I never said anything remotely like ‘we’re smarter than you’

Just after having written:
By studying other cultures and viewpoints other than one’s own, there is an inevitable opening of the mind that occurs.

Yeah, how on earth could being called closed-minded be interpreted as an insult to our intelligence?

Like LauraW, my parents are both immigrants. One of them fled here with my grandparents, leaving everything behind, because of the real-world horrors of Marxist fantasies which “open-minded” academics peddle to this day.

Do not be so arrogant as to assume that we’re right-wingers simply because we’ve never been outside of our home towns.

99. sandy burger - October 1, 2007

Seriously, Winston, you seem nice. I just think you don’t know many right-wingers, and you have a bunch of unexamined stereotypes in your head, because you’re inadvertently saying a bunch of ignorant and insulting stuff here.

We’re not a bad bunch, and really don’t mind differences of opinion; you’d be surprised at how much we all disagree with each other on some pretty fundamental issues. But, your insulting stereotypes of us are tiresome. Let me remind you, you showed up here, insulting us.

And no, I’m not talking about the joke you made (inbred hicks and whatnot), because that was funny. I’m talking about the stereotypes you don’t even realize you’re employing.

100. Professah J - October 1, 2007

Oh, dearests…

I happen to know Winston personally, and while I won’t divulge his actual occupation, he does more good in an hour than most of us do in a week–myself included. (And I am just that damned impressive.)

As for the debate on “conservative studies”–well, there’s plenty of room in the university curriculum for things like econ, business, religious studies (none of which are purely “conservative”), and the like. I am, in fact, one of those “ivory-tower” liberals (and let me tell you all, we’re faced with far more “real-world” grown-up stuff than you think we are. I’m sorry if you were kicked around by obnoxious profs–though in my own experience, those who feel they’ve been slighted in some way usually 1.) don’t do the assignments as specified (most of which do NOT involve writing essays explaining why hugging a tree is a splendid thing to do); 2.) use it as an excuse for not doing well; 3.) recoil at not being able to dominate the discussions in class (my hardcore conservatives tend to be the most vocal, sometimes to the detriment of the class).

And–I say this with the caveat that I once had a Latin-American lit course which turned into a militant Latin feminist lesbian course, taught by a woman of that persuasion who told us it would be darned near impossible for a white male to get an A in her course, because we could never understand. (Possibly true, but I wouldn’t have minded trying.) She, however, is the rare exception.

The overwhelming majority of those of us who teach in the Humanities try to be inclusive of various views–but this does not mean uncritically inclusive. I will not be teaching ID any time soon, nor will I allow my students to kick around gays, the handicapped, or minorities (especially since some of those folks are also sitting in the classroom with them). It isn’t about PC, loves, it’s about respect–as in, you can’t expect someone to respect you if you automatically have a “firewall” set up in your mind that dismisses anyone who isn’t just like you. And you cannot tell me that those who push so very, very hard to force high school and college teachers to teach Creationism and/or ID along with evolution aren’t ultimately aiming to have ONLY Creationism taught. (They may tell you different, but I’ve listened to a lot of Christian radio and even infiltrated a local group.)

And–AND–if you don’t see any value in women’s studies, or culture studies, or any form of self-reflection, then you probably don’t think it’s especially important to understand the culture in which you live. And while it’s not a skill you can immediately market when you graduate, understanding your culture (or others) can be profitable. (Karl Rove’s understanding of the power and application of myth and symbol speaks volumes about this–though, ironically, I’m sure he wouldn’t get the connection–as do the various conventions of doing business overseas. (i.e. if you’re a lefty, don’t offer that hand to an Arab.)

101. geoff - October 1, 2007

Oh, dearests…,/i>

Patronize much?

As for the debate on “conservative studies”–well, there’s plenty of room in the university curriculum for things like econ, business, religious studies (none of which are purely “conservative”), and the like.

That’s exactly the point of the post. Welcome aboard. The fact that liberal professors at U of I don’t share your viewpoint, however, is the item of interest here. Your perspective doesn’t shed much light on their situation. Perhaps if you called them up, starting the discussion with “Oh dearests…” I’m sure they would quickly rally to your position with a compelling opener like that.

And while it’s not a skill you can immediately market when you graduate, understanding your culture (or others) can be profitable.

I think the far more common path to riches arises via the cottage industry of victimization that has grown up over the past two decades. Rather than healing the wounds, they pick at them until they fester.

Nobody here believes that understanding others has no value – but many of us do believe that the academy has taken it to an extreme. Understanding has been replaced by the fostering of resentment and a sense of entitlement.

We mock women’s studies because they have gone the way of NOW – once vital, now merely strident.

We mock cultural studies because they place value on culture rather than on cultural values.

And we mock minority studies because they have become a barrier to resolution of racial conflict – they themselves are perpetuating the evils they were invented to dispel.

Trying to understand our culture through the prism of those types of studies gives a skewed, divisive, self-defeating perspective.

But the greatest irony lies in the admonitions by you and WDG that we need to understand our culture, when obviously neither of you has an inkling about conservative culture. Or even an interest in starting to learn about it.

102. sandy burger - October 1, 2007

though in my own experience, those who feel they’ve been slighted in some way

I wasn’t slighted at uni. I studied science, for the most part, anyhow. In my required humanities classes, I was spoon-fed a bunch of leftist BS, which I believed at the time, and it was only years later that I realized how one-sided and wrong much of it was.

i.e. if you’re a lefty, don’t offer that hand to an Arab

Wow, really?

Again, you assume that we’re right-wing because we’re ignorant.

They may tell you different, but I’ve listened to a lot of Christian radio and even infiltrated a local group

Well, like you, I’m an “evolutionist”. But I’m no secret agent, and I’ve never infiltrated any Christianist cells, so I wouldn’t know.

One thing I do know is that at typical secular American universities (i.e. Oral Roberts U doesn’t count), which are what we’re discussing here, there is simply no danger of young earth creationism or whatever being shoved down students’ throats. None whatsoever.

103. sandy burger - October 1, 2007

But the greatest irony lies in the admonitions by you and WDG that we need to understand our culture

Yeah, that cracked me up, too. We’re being scolded about understanding cultures by people who don’t have even the most basic grasp of 50% of their own country.

104. geoff - October 1, 2007

Sandy, head over to the Hostage’s and check out mesa’s and WP’s first date.

105. Mrs. Peel - October 1, 2007

you can’t expect someone to respect you if you automatically have a “firewall” set up in your mind that dismisses anyone who isn’t just like you

There’s nothing like sweet, sweet irony first thing in the morning.

And when did we support ID or “kick around” anyone other than ivory tower academics? Hint: Thinking that any course with the word “studies” in it is very likely stupid is not the same as thinking that the subject of the course is stupid or not worthy of study.

Just for some equal-opportunity bashing here: Engineering academics can be irritating, too. When I was getting my undergrad degree, I found that almost every professor respected only those students who intend to remain in academia. Those of us who intended to work in the real world were generally disdained.

106. PattyAnn - October 1, 2007

eddiebear, surprise! There are no comments over at Winston’s unhappy teahouse.
Now I can check off the “Free Speech For Me, But Not For Thee Unless I Agree With You” box on the Winston tally sheet, along with Intelligent Design, Halliburton, Blackwater and Bush & Company.
Predictable.

107. cranky - October 1, 2007

PA, I suppose he felt hypocritical — he now has comments. Check his blog header: ‘Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd, smiling…’

Apparently he has some self-awareness.

108. Dave in Texas - October 1, 2007

Perhaps he suffers from remorse?

109. PattyAnn - October 1, 2007

cranky, direct link please? I still don’t see any comments.

110. pjmomma - October 1, 2007

Oh dearests, my, my, my……
His blog has a really nice picture of Jesus on the cross and then of course he has an unfortunate quote on it.
Execute Criminals For Jesus.
All makes sense now
Religious tolerance

111. BrewFan - October 1, 2007

Ol’ Winston ain’t so smart. He thought drum was the right anwer. Everbody knows you can beat a drum and you can beat a woman but you can’t beat sex! Duh.

112. eddiebear - October 1, 2007

So, Winnie says he’s had enough, yet he sends a “professor” friend to write yet another closed minded and patronizing message over here?

113. Cathy - October 1, 2007

Our liberal folk’s comments are bothersome to me. I see them labeling conservatives without bothering to learn from our views or try to respect our opinions or experiences.

Many conservatives not only study other cultures in universities, books, etc, but bother to go to other countries spending time, money, energy, etc. to learn about the people and relate to them.

I have many conservative friends who have traveled, sharing their passions and experiences, and talking about how these times have helped them grow and learn. Here is one example that seems to fit this discussion (but I have plenty more):

A friend spent years in a foreign country teaching English to people who are hungry to know this language. Whether the world likes it or not, others know that English will help them economically for the rest of their lives. My friend was paid next to nothing to do this, although professionally trained and certified in education and also with knowledge of their culture before she entered it…in a sense investing herself in her passion. So this friend returns to the U.S. and continues to teach English as a second language here for more years to the same cultural community from where she had herself been an expat. She not only had professional training and education, but also the experience to teach in this manner. So later she decides that she wants the TESL endorsement here in the states and returns to University to take a few more courses she “needs” for this endorsement.

What she endured in those supposedly academic classes in a highly ranked public university should never have happened. Whenever she tried to participate in discussions, she was subjected to bile similar to what has been spewed on this IB-thread, but over and over again every day in class. This was done by not only other students who communicated arrogance and superiority, but also encouraged and done by the professors. She got her endorsement, but was hurt (and physically affected through the constant verbal abuse and hostility) and saddened by the experience is this academic environment.

It seems that the good ole Liberal arts education, with the word Liberal meaning “thinking freely” is no longer. It has been replaced by many with something… evil and wrong.

I think that is much of what we are all trying to say — that it is important to listen to others and stay in dialog. But from the metacognizant stuff we experienced here in this IB-thread — its pretty plain to see the truth of the matter…if one bothers to look.

I would love to stay and discuss more, but I’m traveling to Southeast Ohio in a bit to do “disaster relief” ministry to the poor there.

114. PattyAnn - October 1, 2007

He’s living in his own world.
Disabled vajayjay = sneering at handicapped people. I finally understand. Makes perfect sense now. Thanks to PJM for helping me figure this puzzle out.

115. PattyAnn - October 1, 2007

Cathy, you are much too kind. I admire you for that.

116. wiserbud - October 1, 2007

since the courageous and enlightened winston bravely moderates his comments, I sincerely doubt the comment I made there will ever see the light of day, so I thought I would also put it here, so that the immense multitude of winston’s readers that will stop by here, thanks to his trackback, will have a chance to read it:

winston,

Perhaps if they knew you were handicapped, they wouldn’t have sneered at you. Of course, I blame them for not recognizing your obvious metal retardation much sooner and treating you with more compassion once they did.

Evil bastards, the lot of them. Bless you for standing up to those evil, evil thugs. You, sir, are quite possibly one of the bravest men I have ever seen on the internet.

117. pjmomma - October 1, 2007

I would love to stay and discuss more, but I’m traveling to Southeast Ohio in a bit to do “disaster relief” ministry to the poor there.

The liberal view of what you’re doing is brainwashing them while they’re down and out. They’re much more susceptible to your indoctrination then.

118. wiserbud - October 1, 2007

d’uh – “metal” = “mental”, of course.

damn wrist-brace, messsinkg wit mi tiping .

119. Russ from Winterset - October 1, 2007

How do you disable a vajayjay? Is that like disabling comments to your blog, or is there some surgery involved?

120. wiserbud - October 1, 2007

How do you disable a vajayjay?

Would that be anything like breaking one?

121. pjmomma - October 1, 2007

my vajayjay has crutches

122. geoff - October 1, 2007

So, Winnie says he’s had enough, yet he sends a “professor” friend to write yet another closed minded and patronizing message over here?

Sock puppet, I’ll bet.

123. PattyAnn - October 1, 2007

“my vajayjay has crutches”

Could be worse. You could have a brace on it.

124. geoff - October 1, 2007

my vajayjay has crutches

You need to give it the Brian Atene treatment:

“My vajayjay has . . . keeeerrrrutches.”

125. eddiebear - October 1, 2007

My comment was a banal one asking when IBers started mocking the disabled. No insulting. Nothing.

Oh well, just like Euphro before, Winston thinks (s)he is better and smarter than everyone else, yet refuses to post anything challenging them, no matter how tame the question was/is.

126. annoying guy, late to thread who restarts argument with point-by-point autopsy of all troll posts - October 1, 2007

I can think of at least one solid reason academia is primarily liberal; when conservatives try to do academics they come up with garbage like ‘Intelligent Design’, wheras liberal secular heathen scientists give us things like moder medicine, which kind of work better than that whole ‘ID’ thing.

What is “moder medicine”?

127. geoff - October 1, 2007

What is “moder medicine”?

I don’t usually pick on typos, but the one in the 2nd paragraph of #72 was especially ironic.

128. daveintexas - October 1, 2007

Brave Sir Robin.

Can you put a broken vajayjay in a cast?

129. pjmomma - October 1, 2007

I named her “Tiny Tina” Merry Christmas to all

130. skinbad - October 1, 2007

Yes you can. The lines are easy to learn, but the costume is cumbersome.

131. skinbad - October 1, 2007

130 was for Dave. I don’t know if you can put one in a chorus line.

132. daveintexas - October 1, 2007

[rimshot]

133. does the work other commenters won't do - October 1, 2007

found it, geoff: Am I supereior to you?

ASSGERBIL!

134. cranky - October 1, 2007

Patty Ann, the link I followed was to his Teahouse of the Evil Buddha, something like that, blog at http://winstondelgado.wordpress.com/

135. wiserbud - October 1, 2007

well, color me shocked. the supereior winston actually allowed my comment to appear.

probably means he didn’t understand it. poor little handicapped guy.

136. PattyAnn - October 1, 2007

cranky, thanks. I saw that finally. I thought you meant he had comments from us.

wiser, I’ve been resisting, but what did you do to your wrist?? Are you handicapped now?

laura, are you still busy with Hugh Jackman? Please post a blow-by-blow so to speak.

137. wiserbud - October 1, 2007

wiser, I’ve been resisting, but what did you do to your wrist?? Are you handicapped now?

Why, do you want to sneer at me now?

138. PattyAnn - October 1, 2007

nope, but if I had your picture, I’d put you through pajamamomma’s celebrity look-alike wayback machine.

139. geoff - October 1, 2007

does the work other commenters won’t do

Just figured it was more fun to go look for it.

140. does the work other commenters won't do - October 1, 2007

Sorry, that was meant for the other others—the ones that wouldn’t go looking for your referenced typo—not you, geoff.

But as Troll would point out, we should all embrace the Other. Otherwise, otherness will become another … {shutting up}

141. sandy burger - October 1, 2007

check out mesa’s and WP’s first date.

Thank heavens nobody was hurt (that we know of).

142. daveintexas - October 1, 2007

looked like they had a good time.

143. Michael - October 1, 2007

Personally, I liked being called “dearest” and “love” by Projessor J. It made me feel like screwin’ a farm animal or something.

144. skinbad - October 1, 2007

Not a cousin? Oops. I said too much.

145. see-dubya - October 1, 2007

Brian Atene!

I’m Chortling Like A Winston Delgado.

146. PattyAnn - October 1, 2007

“Chortling Like A Winston Delgado”
CLAWD

147. Mr Minority - October 1, 2007

Damn! Damn! Damn! I missed a rather nice thread this weekend (It was both Spousal Unit’s and Eldest Son’s Birthday Weekend).

Here is Mr M’s 2 cents worth:

I do believe in ID, it more logical than Creationism and Evolution.

Winston displays a typical liberal attitude and view point of a liberal, he is condescending and demeaning because he believes he is superior to the rest of us conservatives. So much for being “open-minded”

Winston also assumes that conservatives care nothing about other cultures, and is totally incorrect in his assumption. I have worked in the High Tech industry for many years, which tends to have a very diverse culture. I made it a point to talk to them, discuss their cultures, because I found it very interesting and insightful. But I never made the mistake of believing that they were better or worse because they were different. I believe our Judeo-Christian value system, and culture is superior, not because of the religious background, but our culture believes all people are equal in God’s eyes, regardless of their religion or culture. We believe in a larger range of freedoms than you will find anywhere else, we are more acceptant to other peoples cultures than they are to our. What has driven our culture towards to sewer is not it’s diversity, it’s freedoms or religious Judeo-Christian background, but the limitations of Political Correctness, the corruption of moral relativism and and the hatred of secularism has placed on it.

As for the original premise that this post written about, Closed Minded Liberal Academia, I cannot speak to it with experience, I received my Engineering Degree from a strictly Engineering school, thus, and by choice, avoiding the liberal crap you had to endure in the Humanities required courses. The real issue with these tainted institutions of higher learning is not their Liberal bent, it is their closed-mindedness, their inability to hear or understand a opposing viewpoint, and the unwillingness of allowing anyone confront them with the truth of their narrow viewpoint.

It boils down to: The Emperor has no clothes, and they hate to have that fact pointed out to them.

If I misspeell any words, or their is a sentence structure problem, well TFB, I am an Engineer, and substance is more important than proper commas or spelling.

148. Sobek - October 1, 2007

“By studying other cultures and viewpoints other than one’s own, there is an inevitable opening of the mind that occurs.”

One thing that strikes me about leftist multi-culti cant, is that Americans (and westerners in general) need to study other peoples and cultures or else we’re missing out, while third world folk need to be kept in pristine condition (i.e. ignorance).

149. see-dubya - October 1, 2007

Question: I’ve actually lived in the third world. I learned an exotic musical instrument, ate some delicious and alimentary-canal searing food, met some great hard-working people and some laughable jerks, picked up a few words of a dying language, saw some pretty country, talked some politics with people from various walks of life.

And yet here I am, a religious conservative with little patience for cultural relativism and its advocates.

How does that happen? Is it a moral defect, or an intellectual defect? What must I do to attain this true enlightenment of which the Professah speaks?

150. Michael - October 1, 2007

How does that happen? Is it a moral defect, or an intellectual defect?

It’s our fault, doophus. Retards like us are dragging you down, and stunting your native multicultural impulses.

RUN, SEE-DUBYA, RUN AWAY AND SAVE YOURSELF!!!

151. Michael - October 1, 2007

BTW, I have multicultural experiences all the time. This results from the fact that I have people reporting to me in five countries on four continents. The majority are women. This gives me many opportunities to interact with diverse individuals, expand my cultural horizons, and subject them all to the iron feet of white male Western oppression.

So, don’t tell me I’m not multicultural!
:)

152. geoff - October 1, 2007

Yeah, libs always underestimate the amount of cultural knowledge it takes to thoroughly oppress the less fortunate. It’s a full-time job, I tell ya.

Also noting that WDG, brave and lonely defender of the victims we never mocked, is the only person on this thread to mock a cultural sub-group.

153. Mr Minority - October 1, 2007

Damn it! I wrote a nice long and well thought out comment on why WD is liberal wearing blinders, and then wordpress ate it!

So instead of rewriting it, I will paraphrase:

Liberals are closed minded, Academia hates distention against their liberal views, and conservatives do interact with other cultures, we just are not buying into the idea that they are better.

Oh and ID is right, Darwinism is wrong

154. daveintexas - October 1, 2007

I kicked the filter in the nards for ya Mr. M.

Didn’t want to miss a word.

155. Mr Minority - October 1, 2007

Dave – You Da Man!

156. winstondelgado - October 1, 2007

Everyone-
Wow. That’s a lot of attention you’ve all given little old me. First of all, I don’t actually moderate my comments, I just don’t know how to turn the moderator off, but please, go over than and tell me how much you hate me if it will make you feel better. As soon as I finish this I will go straight over there and figure out how to allow you to post immediately so that you may view your smeared feces right away. I know that waiting spoils the effect. I do appreciate that you’ve not blocked me from posting here, but I figure I’m giving you something to talk about and it’s fun for me.

Professor J-I have a feeling I know who you are and appreciate what you brought to the discussion. However, we are talking about a pearls before swine situation here. None of my friends should bother wading into this and I would rather you didn’t as you only fuel the charges of puppetry-if you are familiar with my dialogues with Selwyn Duke you know of whence I speak. In fact, if you’re a stranger and you agree with anything I say, that’s great but keep your silence on this thread. I don’t need your help with these people.

Brewfan-a woman beating joke. How charming and original. I think I heard that twenty years ago. You and Geoff truly have done nothing to advance the stereotype that ‘conservative humor’ is meanspirited and unfunny. I do appreciate being called a ‘humorless wannabe pendant’, however. Let me ask you, are people who display nooses to African-Americans just using ‘humorous conservative shorthand’? Or would you agree that is an offensively hostile gesture? Or what if I made a conservative-beating joke? Would that be equally hilarious as a woman-beating one? Please educate me as I am a humorless wannabe pendandt who has no idea as to what constitues this thing you call ‘humor’.

Russ-I never said I was a successful businessman. It’s a real business that makes me money that I spend but it’s not my primary source of income at this point in my life. I have a deep appreciation and love for the power of capitalism. It can transform not only lives, but the world. But that doesn’t mean that it’s all good all the time-the power to transform is vast, indifferent and must be wielded wisely.

Geoff again-‘Also noting that WDG, brave and lonely defender of the victims we never mocked, is the only person on this thread to mock a cultural sub-group.’

I don’t know if this is more of that ‘humorous conservative shorthand’ or an attempt at irony, but it does bring me to my final point: Today I showed the original post to a black woman with cerebral palsy and she agreed with me, for the most part. I know it may sound terribly unlikely, but I am surrounded everyday by all sorts of hyphenated people and she was actually looking over my shoulder when I was approving your comments to my blog when she asked me about what she saw on the screen. I brought up this post and the thread. She read it and we had an interesting conversation about political debate and rhetoric. She found it hilarious that a site that had posters with avatars like ‘digitalbrownshirt’ and ‘stupid typical fucking moonbat’ were accusing me of stereotyping them. She also found it hilarious that y’all insist on painting me as a typical liberal stereotype-her exact words were ‘they haven’t met you, have they?’

I certainly have touched a nerve with you people, I’ll say that. All I’m really trying to do is tell you what you sound like to people who aren’t you. If you wish to be offensive, you should not be shocked or surprised that people take offense. I certainly am not shocked or surprised by any of your responses-after all, I provoked them. I actually enjoy talking with people who think differently from me-especially conservatives. We have far more in common than we have separating us.

I also apologize for all typos. I have an IQ of 87 and sometimes have difficulty operating the computer.
-WD

157. Bart - October 1, 2007

I have an IQ of 87 and sometimes have difficulty operating the computer.

winston, you also suffer from delusion. Seek help.

158. winstondelgado - October 1, 2007

PS-
Whoever complained about the ‘Execute Criminals’ t-shirt. That was meant to be an anti-death penalty statement meant to tweak Christians who support the death penalty. No disrespect intended to Jesus-remember, the only individual He promised He would see in Heaven was hanging on the cross next to Him!
-WD

159. Bart - October 1, 2007

Right. A complaint.

Yeah, we’re all tweaked.

Tweaked with hateness.

160. winstondelgado - October 1, 2007

Bart-
Hateness at who?

161. winstondelgado - October 1, 2007

Everyone-
Figured it out! You may comment away with abandon!
-WD

162. winstondelgado - October 1, 2007

Geoff, you said-
We mock women’s studies because they have gone the way of NOW – once vital, now merely strident.

We mock cultural studies because they place value on culture rather than on cultural values.

And we mock minority studies because they have become a barrier to resolution of racial conflict – they themselves are perpetuating the evils they were invented to dispel.

Trying to understand our culture through the prism of those types of studies gives a skewed, divisive, self-defeating perspective. ‘

What about the disabled? Why do you mock the disabled? Please enlighten me.
-WD

163. BrewFan - October 1, 2007

remember, the only individual He promised He would see in Heaven was hanging on the cross next to Him!

Oh great. Another troll who gets his theology from the back of cereal boxes.

“In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am there you may be also.” – Jesus Christ

P.S. If you heard that joke 20 years ago why didn’t you know the answer? And why were you listening to women beating jokes 20 years ago? Are you some kind of male chauvinist? BTW, I asked my hispanic lady friend who has shingles if she thought it was funny and she said, “They don’t know you, do they”.

Very profound.

164. BrewFan - October 1, 2007

That was meant to be an anti-death penalty statement meant to tweak Christians who support the death penalty.

I wasn’t tweaked. There is no conflict between Christian doctrine and the death penalty. Except for the one in the mind’s of those who don’t understand Christian doctrine and oppose the death penalty.

165. Michael - October 1, 2007

Wow. That’s a lot of attention you’ve all given little old me.

Wow, you’re wrong right off the bat. We’re not actually giving attention to you, but to each other. We enjoy joking around. Doesn’t surprise me that you don’t get that.

I just don’t know how to turn the moderator off, but please, go over than and tell me how much you hate me if it will make you feel better.

Nobody hates you, you silly doophus. From your Dashboard in WordPress, just go to Options, then Discussion, then scroll down and look for Comment Moderation and untick the appropriate box.

As soon as I finish this I will go straight over there and figure out how to allow you to post immediately so that you may view your smeared feces right away.

Um, who’s hatin’ who right now?

Today I showed the original post to a black woman with cerebral palsy and she agreed with me, for the most part. I know it may sound terribly unlikely, but I am surrounded everyday by all sorts of hyphenated people and she was actually looking over my shoulder when I was approving your comments to my blog when she asked me about what she saw on the screen. I brought up this post and the thread.

This story does not surprise me. FWIW, Professor J had a very high regard for the work you do, and I believed him. I don’t really know exactly what you do, but I’ll bet you make a big difference to people like that black lady. I salute you, Winston, for your calling. My wife has done the same kind of work, I imagine, because she has been involved in a caring profession with severely harmed people, so I know how difficult that can be. (Personally, I get paid to be a ruthless bastard, which suits me fine.)

She found it hilarious that a site that had posters with avatars like ‘digitalbrownshirt’ and ’stupid typical fucking moonbat’ were accusing me of stereotyping them.

She’s right. It is hilarious. We think it’s hilarious. Personally, I think the funniest thing on this thread was me talking about fucking farm animals.

I crack myself up all the time. Other people, not so much. You should get that black lady to comment here. I think she might fit in better than you do.

I certainly have touched a nerve with you people, I’ll say that.

Oh, c’mon. At most you annoyed a couple of people. The main thing you touched was our funny bone. Sheesh. You don’t realize that we talk to liberal trolls all the time as a form of entertainment. Not so much here; mostly at AOSHQ.

All I’m really trying to do is tell you what you sound like to people who aren’t you.

We actually know that. We knew we were pissing you off. One of the effects of internet anonymity is that we are less likely to care about offending someone while we are goofing around.

What we don’t know is whether you realize what you sound like to us — the condescension towards people you do not know or understand, your unfamiliarity with the ambiance of the site, your ignorance of the moral fiber, experiences, open hearts, and intellect of people with whom you may actually have a lot in common.

So, your most interesting remark was this:

I certainly am not shocked or surprised by any of your responses-after all, I provoked them. I actually enjoy talking with people who think differently from me-especially conservatives. We have far more in common than we have separating us.

You go girl! That’s my impression also. But there is one final problem:

I have an IQ of 87 and sometimes have difficulty operating the computer.

Oh please. IQ of 87? Here at IB we specialize in self-deprecating humor. You can surely do better than that lame joke.

166. daveintexas - October 1, 2007

it feeds.

*tosses shrimp flakes*

wag your tail or something interesting.

167. BrewFan - October 1, 2007

WD, don’t buy that ‘ruthless bastard’ bit from Michael. The mere fact he would engage you so politely should signal to you how desperate he is for friendship.

168. Michael - October 1, 2007

Fuck you, Brewfan, or better yet — ăn tôi.

I am a ruthless, crimefighting bastard. I am the Dark Knight. I will not tolerate your insinuations to the contrary.

169. Lipstick - October 1, 2007

True. And don’t say yes when he offers to show you his Batman suit.

170. Lipstick - October 1, 2007

169 was to Brewfan at 167.

Although it sort of worked either way.

171. Michael - October 1, 2007

*Michael looks at Brewfan and Lipstick*

*Finger on the BAN button*

*Thinking — they can be replaced with new friends Winston and the Black Lady With Cerebral Palsy*

172. daveintexas - October 1, 2007

I was tryin to hook winston up with a like minded chick.

http://loonycrazybitch.wordpress.com/

don’t click from here dude. be nice and cut and paste.

173. BrewFan - October 1, 2007

C’mon Michael, we all know you’re like the hooker with the heart of gold. Ya big lug.

174. Michael - October 1, 2007

C’mon Michael, we all know you’re like the hooker with the heart of gold. Ya big lug.

*Michael has finger on BAN button. He is fed up with Brewfan. Breaks into a sweat.*

175. Lipstick - October 1, 2007

hahahahahaha!

There’s no such thing as a BAN button,

Right?

176. daveintexas - October 1, 2007

just a tripwire, baited with peanut butter.

crunchy peanut butter

177. Lipstick - October 1, 2007

Oh, well, I’m all about the smooth, so no problemo.

178. lauraw - October 1, 2007

*tiptoes away in fear of a breathalizer that can detect peanut butter*

179. digitalbrownshirt - October 1, 2007

It makes me giggle when people don’t recognize the digitalbrownshirt name for what it really means.

180. geoff - October 1, 2007

What about the disabled? Why do you mock the disabled? Please enlighten me.

And WDG descends into a complete abandonment of truth. As we noted repeatedly, we are mocking the study of these groups as an academic pursuit, not the groups themselves.

But you may well ask why study of the disabled was included, since there are no academic departments in that field. Yet.

I can’t speak for Skinbad, but I’m assuming it was a combination of PC speech constraints regarding the “differently abled” combined with growing abuse of the Americans with Disabilities Act that led to their inclusion in his list.

181. pjmomma - October 1, 2007

crunchy or extra crunchy?

182. Michael - October 1, 2007

There’s no such thing as a BAN button, Right?

Wrong.

In the All-Knowing IB Dashboard™, I can exclude by name, email address, or IP address.

Or just some random word, like “Hillary,” in a comment.

Dave and Brewfan can do the same thing, BTW.

You are on notice.

183. pjmomma - October 1, 2007

what does digitalbrownshirt mean? I don’t know what it means when you say it or when WD says it.

184. Michael - October 1, 2007

The Brownshirts were an early Nazi political movement. They were responsible for “Krystallnacht,” or “Crystal Night,” an early attack on the Jews by the Nazis before the Nazis took power. The reference to crystal had to do with the broken windows of Jewish shopkeepers. The Nazis actually wore brown shirts.

So, now on the intertubes, this is an ironic reference, which is intended to be a humorous reference to a very right-wing political perspective.

185. geoff - October 1, 2007

I don’t know if this is more of that ‘humorous conservative shorthand’ or an attempt at irony,

Wow, recursive humor deficiency.

By the way, do you even know what the acronym following Skinbad’s supposedly offensive sentence meant? “NTTAWWT?” It’s kind of important to the reading of the paragraph.

186. daveintexas - October 1, 2007

what? what’d I do now?

187. pjmomma - October 1, 2007

Thank you Michael. I guess I have a reading assignment for tomorrow.

188. digitalbrownshirt - October 1, 2007

“The Administration works closely with a network of rapid response Digital Brownshirts who work to pressure reporters and their editors for undermining support for our troops.” ~Al Gore

Anybody that disagrees with a liberal is a Nazi. Doesn’t matter what the subject matter.
Anti-abortion? Nazi.
Evangelical Christian? Nazi.
Pro-military? That’s a double Nazi rating.

189. pjmomma - October 1, 2007

Two out of three, I reckon I’m a Nazi

190. geoff - October 1, 2007

Brewfan-a woman beating joke. How charming and original. I think I heard that twenty years ago.

Irony apparently eludes you. Why do you suppose BrewFan picked that particular joke? Hint: it has to do with your bigotry.

Today I showed the original post to a black woman with cerebral palsy…

You don’t have to go anywhere to find women, minorities, or handicapped people – you can find them right here. People in every one of those categories have commented to you.

191. Michael - October 1, 2007

Thank you Michael. I guess I have a reading assignment for tomorrow.

Just google “Kystallnacht” and you will get the joke.

192. Michael - October 1, 2007

You don’t have to go anywhere to find women, minorities, or handicapped people – you can find them right here. People in every one of those categories have commented to you.

That’s true. Brewfan, for example, is an example of a mentally handicapped person, which explains why he is a Calvinist instead of a Lutheran.

Dave is similarly disabled, which is why he is a Baptist.

Same for Mrs. Peel, who is a perfectionist Methodist. And papist Roman Catholics like Kevlarchick. Not to mention Mormons *cough-spit-cough* like Skinbad.

They will all get their comeuppance when they get assigned to the Reeducation Camps during the inevitable Lutheran Millennium™.

Then, they will be begging me for mercy. Oh yes they will.

193. geoff - October 1, 2007

At least Dave will be begging with soft, supple hands.

194. daveintexas - October 1, 2007

Just google “Kystallnacht” and you will get the joke.

add an “r”

I’m doing my best to lure RWS’ crazy goofball troll here and leave my stupid blog alone. It occurs to me that’s the last place on earth anyone will pay attention to her, which would be pretty depressing if I wasn’t blogging here.

195. Michael - October 1, 2007

FYI, Geoff will be in pretty good shape during the Lutheran Millenium™, because he bought me a couple of drinks while I was in Denver, so I have not put him on any lists for the strict Reeducation Camps.

196. geoff - October 1, 2007

…because he bought me a couple of drinks while I was in Denver…

Hey, this Lutheran Millenium thing is gonna be a breeze.

197. sandy burger - October 1, 2007

Just google “Kystallnacht” and you will get the joke.

No, ’cause you still won’t catch that it’s an Al Gore reference.

198. winstondelgado - October 1, 2007

Geoff-
http://winstondelgado.wordpress.com/2007/10/01/conservatives-and-race/
Thank you for the quote. I used it without much citation, however. If you would like a hyperlink citation please let me know. It made a great framework for the blog entry. I mean this entirely as a compliment-I found your statements on the subject to be very articulate. Except for the NATRHWGR stuff. I have no idea what you’re jibbering about there. If you people are going to complain about ebonics and spanish, then try speaking English yourself.

Michael-
Thank you for trying to apologize for your rude friends, but that’s not needed. I’m not taking any real offense here. All of the hysteria you hear is projected from your own inner voice. The caricature of the lefty whining about meanie conservatives is so ingrained that we project it on each other reflexively. This is the fault of everyone. The text nature of email and blogging encourage these projections. Using pictures doesn’t even help. At another site a woman raged on about how my ‘smirking visage embodies my smug blah blah blah…’ For Christ’s sake, that’s just what I look like when I smile! I rarely bother looking at left wing blogs-I find them boring and self-congratulatory. I often disagree with them but the nature of the disagreements are such that I figure I’ll let natural selection and the right wing blogosphere deal with them. This sort of thing is much more interesting and stimulating. They’re boring.

Also, I do have an IQ of 87. For real and true. That is what the test said.

But then, I think IQ tests are complete and utter bullshit.

-WD

199. Michael - October 1, 2007

Lipstick, you are also still OK during the Lutheran Millenium™. You are listed to be one of my Personal Attendants, so relax.

200. digitalbrownshirt - October 1, 2007

But then, I think IQ tests are complete and utter bullshit.

I would too if I was scored as an 87.

201. Bart - October 1, 2007

I forget, I’m a Calvinist, right?

202. Michael - October 1, 2007

Michael-
Thank you for trying to apologize for your rude friends, but that’s not needed. I’m not taking any real offense here.

So, why were you referring to my friends as “smearing feces”?

Jeebers, Winston, you are so clueless. I was not apologizing for my friends. I was apologizing for you.

203. Casey-the-3-Legged-Crimefighter - October 1, 2007

Winston,
Bite me.

204. geoff - October 1, 2007

I mean this entirely as a compliment-I found your statements on the subject to be very articulate.

Ah – and that’s why you call me a “conservative twerp.” And you took my quote out of context, too, claiming that I meant something that I specifically said I did not. What compels you to lie like that?

Except for the NATRHWGR stuff. I have no idea what you’re jibbering about there.

Then maybe you should hush up a little before bumbling into a site and claiming that you’re actually following the discussion. We have acronyms and private jokes because we’re a little community – we’re under no obligation to make it comprehensible to someone like you.

Unless you ask nicely, of course.

205. Michael - October 1, 2007

I forget, I’m a Calvinist, right?

Sorry, Bart, but I score you as an Insecure Legalist. That means the Ultra-Strict Camp.

We’re talking Bread-and-Water rations, dude. No Mr. Lamm’s Heavy Metal Genuine Texas Barbecue™ for you. Not for a thousand years.

206. Bart - October 1, 2007

Are you shittin’ me?

The Pentecostals are going to rule. In fact, we’re going to be like the New England Pentecostals in Heaven.

207. daveintexas - October 1, 2007

needy.

208. Michael - October 1, 2007

But then, I think IQ tests are complete and utter bullshit.

I actually agree with that, by they way. At the University of Michigan, I had to take a course in Marxist economics. The professor was pretty good. He actually convinced me that the Myers-Briggs IQ test was more of a class-sorting mechanism than an aptitude test.

That idea stuck with me. In my life, I have witnessed the fact that IQ does not really correlate with success. I have known extremely bright people who were dysfunctional (like, a guy who gutshot himself and then called me), and extremely dumb people who were top corporate executives.

If you, Winston, really scored an IQ of 87, that doesn’t mean shit to me.

Just sayin’.

209. Cathy - October 1, 2007

Hey Winnie the Poop…

I have tried to be a lady but I tire of putting up with any more of this without telling you that you bore me.

Your pattern of behavior is a classic.
You are angry about other stuff that has nothing to do with us.
You bounce off something said here that you didn’t understand…
and then jump into your own bullshit with both feet and no hip boots.

You have shown in all your communication here that you desperately desire to piss people off and then enjoy the fantasy that you actually have accomplished it.

It is a classic projection of all your own crap and your “smearing feces” was a most precious example.

It didn’t rattle me. It may be disgusting, but those of us who have parented know how to handle crap…

Baby wipes.

210. daveintexas - October 1, 2007

He’s just needy, and taking advantage of the politeness most of us (not me) typically demonstrate.

It would be fun to see him man up and debate at AoS.

And by fun I mean watching him run away crying hot tears of shame.

211. wiserbud - October 1, 2007

Hey, can anyone be a pathetic, traffic-hungry blog-whore on this thread or is this one reserved for poor little low-IQ winston?

‘Cause over at the The Hostages…ummm….well…actually, there’s not a hell of a lot going on over there, so….uhhh…never mind, I guess.

212. geoff - October 1, 2007

C’mon, he’s speaking truth to power, dammit! He’s defending the weak and helpless because he just can’t help himself! It’s just the way his sense of justice rolls!

It would help a lot, though, if the groups he chose to defend (minorities, women, the disabled) were the groups we were attacking (academics trafficking in boutique victims studies).

213. Bart - October 2, 2007

I won’t go to the Hostages until someone makes a slideshow with those two with the song from Courtship to Edddie’s Father.

People, let me tell you about my be-eest friend…

214. geoff - October 2, 2007

Hey, can anyone be a pathetic, traffic-hungry blog-whore on this thread or is this one reserved for poor little low-IQ winston?

Corollary question: Should I be depressed that I still get half the traffic on my little blog that I got when I was actively bloggin?

215. geoff - October 2, 2007

Just won an Army contract, so there’s a small chance that I’ll be heading up to Detroit a few times over the next several months. I’ll have to stop by and see mesa. Mebbe, if I can mess with the timing, I can somehow manage to wangle my way into getting in the neighborhood of the IBSBP.

216. wiserbud - October 2, 2007

I was thinking more along the lines of Diana Ross’s “Touch Me in the Morning.”

217. Mrs. Peel - October 2, 2007

And when did we complain about ebonics and Spanish??? And to think that troll spent all that time insisting that WE were putting words in HIS mouth…

PS, NTTAWWT is a really common ‘net acronym, by no means unique to this site. Google turns up 20k results.

Michael, you are correct. The trouble is that, as my current coworkers so thoroughly demonstrate, raw intelligence does not correlate with common sense.

218. Michael - October 2, 2007

Winston, I’m going to help you out with your professional life. I’m assuming that you are a professional caregiver.

You can approach the professional care-giving task in two ways: Walking-Wounded or Wounded-Healer. In the former case, you are mostly trying to solve your own issues. In the latter case, you are mostly trying to solve your client’s issues.

It is a given that we’ve all been wounded, normally in early childhood.

So, it’s your choice. It depends on how you feel about yourself.

What you have shown on this thread is the mentality of Walking-Wounded. I mean: banked anger, insecurity, unresolved childhood issues. You know what I am talking about.

219. not winston (IQ=88) - October 2, 2007

“google?” what is this mysterious “google” you speak of? Is this one of your conservative-hate terms for asians?

220. Bart - October 2, 2007

Exciting game in Colorado.

I hope geoff was watching.

WOW!

221. geoff - October 2, 2007

Baseball’s not my thing, and these days, I don’t even have time to hang with the extended family and watch the Bronco’s games.

Which is turning out to be a good thing.

222. Mrs. Peel - October 2, 2007

Short on time, eh, geoff? So you wouldn’t appreciate my linking to this and saying it was fun, fascinating, and also so f’n scary I almost screamed when interrupted while playing? (Granted, I am a wuss, but still.)

223. Mrs. Peel - October 2, 2007

oh, should have noted: it’s the first game on the list.

224. Lipstick - October 2, 2007

Lipstick, you are also still OK during the Lutheran Millenium™. You are listed to be one of my Personal Attendants, so relax.

Does that mean I have to oil your phalanges, again? Cause it got a little dicey last time.

That wasn’t really a phalange, was it?

225. geoff - October 2, 2007

Thanks, Mrs. P., you’re so compassionate. Surprised you had time to recommend that game, what with your commitments of distributing crack to recovering addicts and buying shots for AA members.

226. Michael - October 2, 2007

Does that mean I have to oil your phalanges, again?

Yes.

That wasn’t really a phalange, was it?

No.

227. Lipstick - October 2, 2007

Dang

228. Professah J - October 2, 2007

Actually, nobody “sent” me, ladies and gents. It’s just something I’m interested in. (As for the infiltration, I was curious, and didn’t want to draw any attention to myself–I’m working on a little article for shits ‘n giggles.)

And actually, as for that “which does not belong” thread–check your tantric sex books–with a little imagination woman, sex, and drum all go together very nicely.

And lo and behold, but I did make some sweeping generalizations–just like you all before either Winston or I came on this thread. Always nice to hear people tell me all about myself. Gender/cultural/queer studies (yes, they’re really called that) are not all a bunch of crap you’re forced to take so we can all be a nice, happy family who celebrates differences, nor are they long diatribes of victimization. But I am really, really tired of people with no preparation in higher education thinking they know what I ought to be teaching better than I do. In this, and only in this, I feel completely comfortable asserting the “expert” card. And if I offended anyone by my broad generalizations, well, I guess I’ll offer a partial apology. But social conservatives declared war on me first–in as many words. It’s made me a little punchy in return.

Are there (Insert marginalized group) Studies profs who abuse their positions and engage in intellectual bullying? You bet. Are college faculty obnoxious at times? Hell yes. Especially at a king-shit school like U of I, where the faculty are accustomed to being treated like superstars. (I’ll be the first to admit we Humanities profs aren’t the most self-effacing people on Earth. But Earth is a big place, and there’s far worse than us in positions of far greater power.) Generally, though, if you can’t stand the idea of reading about gays/lesbians, or non-whites, you do have the option of avoiding those courses–the really specifically-focused ones tend to be electives or are geared toward narrow majors. If not, make the best of it, and see things from another perspective–you don’t have to buy into it to learn from it. (And here’s a hint for any current students on this board–most professors actually like it when you “engage” the material and don’t just parrot it back verbatim. Even when you’re a…con…conservative.)

My general goodwill to y’all…

229. geoff - October 2, 2007

But social conservatives declared war on me first–in as many words. It’s made me a little punchy in return.

And by the same token, liberal trolls have infested conservative sites in droves for years. It’s led us to adopt a policy of shooting first and shooting often.

But I am really, really tired of people with no preparation in higher education thinking they know what I ought to be teaching better than I do.

That’s not a very compromising position. The point of education is most often preparation for industry, not preparation for academia. If industry is finding fault in the offerings of the academy, then the academy should be open-minded about adjusting its curriculum.

It’s also not at all true that proponents of these courses have no preparation in “higher education thinking.” Even on this thread you’ve encountered at least 5 people who have and/or are pursuing advanced degrees.

230. Michael - October 2, 2007

It’s also not at all true that proponents of these courses have no preparation in “higher education thinking.”

Geoff meant “opponents”, not “proponents”. The sentence is also an awkward double negative. Geoff is a Ph.D. candidate who studies useless stuff like quantum physics, which does not really count as education, in my humble opinion.

Even on this thread you’ve encountered at least 5 people who have and/or are pursuing advanced degrees.

You have also encountered a few people who have and/or are pursuing farm animals, but that’s beside the point, I suppose.

231. geoff - October 2, 2007

Geoff meant “opponents”, not “proponents”.

Nyoop. I meant proponents of the courses on free market theory and limited government, i.e., the people “thinking they know what Prof. J. ought to be teaching.”

Michael is a lawyer who is used to interpreting people’s statements the way he wants to, which does not really count as an occupation, in my humble opinion.

You have also encountered a few people who have and/or are pursuing farm animals

I’m sure they’re advanced farm animals.

232. TattooedIntellectual - October 2, 2007

228. Professah J – October 2, 2007

Generally, though, if you can’t stand the idea of reading about gays/lesbians, or non-whites , you do have the option of avoiding those courses–the really specifically-focused ones tend to be electives or are geared toward narrow majors. If not, make the best of it, and see things from another perspective–you don’t have to buy into it to learn from it. (And here’s a hint for any current students on this board–most professors actually like it when you “engage” the material and don’t just parrot it back verbatim. Even when you’re a…con…conservative.)

Ok, I stayed out of this cause y’all were having way too much fun, but I’ve had perhaps a smidge too much sugar tonight and feel the urge to join in.

Speaking only for myself (although I think some of the others may agree), you’re conflating two only slightly related ideas. No one on this board has discredited the idea of learning/reading about others (someone correct me if I’m wrong–I know you will :)). We/I have issues with the idea that race/culture/sexuality/disability bestow victimhood upon those groups and that it’s acceptable to use it as a club to demand special privileges/rights. In other words, these things make someone “more” equal than the next person. Not sure I can cite many examples, although affirmative action is probably the most glaring.

As for those classes being electives, even as a biology major I took several social science and humanities classes. I would say it’s almost impossible to make it through any undergrad degree w/o taking at least one ______ Studies class. Thankfully, I’m pursuing my Masters at the moment which is much more on topic.

To get to the point (finally), I think my overwhelming issue is w/ the arrogance of two people who crash a blog, which operates at a certain humor level w/ certain long-standing jokes, to lecture us on how stupid/mean/inbred we are. Winston’s post that started this was a supercilious rant regarding us mere “anti-illectuals”. Next time you visit an acquaintances’s home I suggest that you immediately begin critiquing their interior design choices and lecturing them on the correct use of color/texture/pattern. Let me know what the response is. On second thought, don’t bother. I deal w/ enough arrogance on campus every day anyway.

233. TattooedIntellectual - October 2, 2007

Damn, I got this html code shit down!

Now, next time I post I’ll totally screw it sideways.

234. Michael - October 2, 2007

Nyoop. I meant proponents of the courses on free market theory . . .

OK, you meant “proponents.” I got confused by your double negative sentence structure, which sucked.

Michael is a lawyer who is used to interpreting people’s statements the way he wants to . . .

Cathy says that all the time. You’re both crazy. I’m just being rational.

BTW, Geoff, Cathy just told me to say hello to you. She likes you.

So, hello.

*Michael glares at Geoff*

235. Michael - October 2, 2007

I would say it’s almost impossible to make it through any undergrad degree w/o taking at least one ______ Studies class.

Interesting observation, TI. Why is it that liberal profs always name their course “______ Studies”?

I’m thinking it’s a code phrase that students recognize as a GPA-booster.

236. Michael - October 2, 2007

I think I just figured out why Geoff is currently taking Quantum Physics Studies 101.

237. daveintexas - October 2, 2007

Always nice to hear people tell me all about myself.

Good. You’re dull too.

238. TattooedIntellectual - October 2, 2007

My sweetest fluff course in undergrad was Art History. That was fun. I did want to take one regarding the differences in gender roles in midevil Europe but couldn’t figure out how to squeeze in his fairly demanding homework w/ an organic chem class/lab that was 12 hrs a week, and two other bio classes w/ labs, plus working.

Not all of them are labeled as ______ Studies, but most of them do boil down to that. I think b/c it becomes very difficult to label biology, or physics or math or chemistry classes as biology studies. Just doesn’t work.

239. TattooedIntellectual - October 2, 2007

And GPA booster/fluff courses always pissed me off. I understand the argument regarding well-rounded students, but dammit there’s so much more in biology/geography that I could have covered.

240. TattooedIntellectual - October 2, 2007

Night!

241. daveintexas - October 2, 2007

I struggled with organic chemistry.

Probably my conservatism.

242. geoff - October 2, 2007

I struggled with organic chemistry.

Me too. That stuff still makes no sense to me.

243. Mr Minority - October 2, 2007

I struggled with English and Writing classes. My brain doesn’t function that way. Speech was easy, and the only Writing course I liked was Tech Writing. I tend to be straight forward, say the most with the least amount of words necessary. Why struggle using bloviating metaphors and tenacious adjectives, when a simple Eat Shit! will suffice.

244. Cathy - October 2, 2007

Mr. Min
I wish my brother who is a university prof could get you in one of his creative writing or English literature classes. Although very conservative politically, he has the passion and a gift teaching his students from all walks of life and academic endeavors to better understand not only the art of the language, but he will affirm where they presently are in their own creative use of it. You might work hard, but I don’t think you will experience the academic arrogance or patronizing attitude we have been talking about here.

You might be surprised how much you already know and how well you would do. I have thoroughly enjoyed your style. You engage readers and keep them reading…a lot more than “Eat Shit.”

245. daveintexas - October 2, 2007

or “eat lead, sucka”!

246. daveintexas - October 2, 2007

saying “sucka!” always makes me laugh to myself.

247. Mr Minority - October 2, 2007

Cathy,
Thank you, I have had to learn over the years how to say “eat lead, sucka”! using the proper verbiage because the different job functions I have had. My current job requires me to interact with local, county and state Govt’s so I have learned to be flowery in my writing skills. But it is not the way I am comfortable with, so I have to work at it. Now if I was talking/writing technicalese, that is totally different, I can do that in my sleep, it is straight forward, less wordy and full of technical jargon.

248. wiserbud - October 2, 2007

Just in case anyone is interested, here is a fun little IQ test. (As it seems to be important to some that their IQ is well-known, which I’m sure was in no way a set-up for a screeching, girly, whiny, “look, they made fun of me ’cause I said I was had a low IQ, those handicapped-hating conservatives!” oh-so-brave and supereior sort of way)

249. Dave in Texas - October 2, 2007

SUCKA!

250. geoff - October 2, 2007

IQ tests are like Churchill’s quote about democracy:

“it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried”

251. Mr Minority - October 2, 2007

Simple IQ tests are not a real indication of intelligence, and can be deceptive. What is needs is a full spectrum of tests, not just an IQ Test.

My youngest son has a reading disability and he has been tested several times. And the best one was done by a Neuropsychologist who gave him a whole battery of tests from reading comprehension to mechanical aptitude tests. His IQ is average, his reading/word skills was poor, comprehension high, and mechanical aptitude way above normal. In fact he freaked the Doc out when he was given a complex line drawing to study for 2 minutes and after 5 minutes of wait time was asked to reproduce the drawing. He drew it damn near perfectly, which the Doc had never seen anyone do before.

So it is not all IQ, there are several factors that can lead to true intelligence.

252. Mr Minority - October 2, 2007

Oh, and my son didn’t go onto college, he when to the best Automotive Technician school, in which he utilizes his strengths and doesn’t require much in his weak areas. He kicked ass!

253. sandy burger - October 2, 2007

Generally, though, if you can’t stand the idea of reading about gays/lesbians, or non-whites

So, in a nutshell, you simply have no idea what we’re objecting to about higher education.

254. cranky - October 2, 2007

Mr. M, I read yesterday that Automotive Technicians were the among the third highest field in demand for new employees. Congratulations to your son. We will always need people who know how to build and fix things — ‘do-ers’ are really the people who made and make this country great.

Some academics have become so used to telling each other how great they are that they’ve come to sound like a bad Monty Python skit. And then they’re shocked when they belatedly discover that others do not always share their high opinion of themselves.

255. Pupster - October 2, 2007

Welp,
I just spent 30 minutes reading this thread. I demand a refund.

256. BrewFan - October 2, 2007

Sorry, this thread was On Sale so there will be no refunds. However, as the Assistant Site Administrator I am prepared to offer you an in-blog credit. We’re all about customer service here at IB.

257. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Geoff-
I was posting a reply to you when I noticed you said you weren’t coming back, but I really wanted you to see this because I wrote it just for you:
Geoff-
You are caviling over trifles so that you may ignore the larger point. English Common Law had no provisions for making slavery legal in Britain itself and a legal decision in 1772 made it clear that at the very least a slave could not be removed from England against his will. The move to abolish the Atlantic Slave Trade in 1807 was not mere grandstanding (though the US move in 1808 was-they had no choice as the British controlled the seas)-For the British Fleet to force the end of the trade was a real commitment of material and men. The final end of British slavery was also a commitment-the Crown reimbursed slave owners throughout the Empire for their economic losses. When you consider these facts, it is absurd to argue that ‘the US merits special consideration for it’s rapid abolition of slavery.’ If none of that makes any difference to you, consider that Portugal abolished slavery in 1761, Scotland abolished slavery in 1788, and Haiti in 1804, then it is not merely laughable to argue that ‘the US merits special consideration for it’s rapid abolition of slavery’, but obvious that the person who is making such an arguement is willfully distorting the truth for their own agenda.

Oh, I need a hint to figure out that flying the battle standard of the Confederate States of America has nothing to do with African-Americans or slavery. It’s ‘heritage not hate’, right? Is that why the people who displayed nooses to African-Americans were also displaying Confederate Flags? Is that why the Council of Conservative Citizens (a group well known for it’s pro-Confederate, white supremacist views) in 1997 presented a Confederate Flag that had flown over the South Carolina statehouse to Jean Marie LePen, founder of the quasi-fascist National Front political party. LePen is an anti-semitic, Holocaust-denying Nazi-apologist. As recently as a year ago, he said: ‘I do not question the existence of concentration camps but historians could discuss the number of deaths. As to the existence of gas chambers, it is up to historians to make up their minds’
I’m sure he really appreciated all the heritage that flag represents.
As for your assertion that ‘most conservatives don’t approve of flying the Confederate flag over state capitals. We just don’t get too exercised by it.’ I will direct you back to Townhall.com.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MattTowery/2007/04/19/inside_the_numbers_here_comes_trouble
In a poll conducted by the conservative website earlier this year, 70 percent of respondents who identified themselves as Republican said they opposed removing the Confederate flag from the state capitol grounds’.
So, you’re wrong. True, you said ‘over’ state capitols, but SC took the flag down six years ago so I figured the poll data from back then would not be relevant to a conversation about contemporary conservatism (after all, Fred Thompson considers the Terry Schiavo controversey ‘ancient history’ and that was a whole two years and six months ago!).
Finally, there’s your lovely little essay on race. What a treat.
‘I can’t prove it, but it seems to me that at least some of the motivation for these sorts of parties is a backlash against the constraints of politically-correct thinking, multicultural/diversity pressures, and hate crime laws. When told that they can’t do or think something, college students are notorious for digging in their heels and doing or thinking that very thing. To a lesser extent, so is the general public.

It is also true that there is no widespread agreement on what constitutes racism in America. The cottage industry that centers on racial issues has a much less tolerant definition than many people would consider reasonable, but they “own” the issue of racism, so it is always their criteria that are used. But if those criteria are so stringent so as to be counterproductive, causing resentment and backlash instead of unity and understanding, they are part of the problem.’

So, it’s the fault of minorities that white people act like racists. Conservatives like you are ‘rebels’ that can’t be tamed. White people should be able to decide when their actions and words are offensive and blacks are just going to have to deal with that. Well, Geoff, that says it all for me. Fly a Confederate flag with pride. Consider Medved’s sloppy writing with all the care and consideration you like. You’ll just have to forgive me for pointing out that you ought to be ashamed of yourself.
-WD
PS-Robert E Lee, 1856-’There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence.’

It sounds to me like he and Medved would have a lot to talk about.

258. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

‘I mean this entirely as a compliment-I found your statements on the subject to be very articulate.’

Ah – and that’s why you call me a “conservative twerp.” And you took my quote out of context, too, claiming that I meant something that I specifically said I did not. What compels you to lie like that?

That was a joke. Conservatives seem to think the highest compliment they can pay an African-American is to say they are ‘articulate’. You might not get it. It’s a black thang. I guess lots of people have their own little private jokes that others don’t get. I called you a ‘conservative twerp’ because I cannot tell a lie.
-WD

259. daveintexas - October 2, 2007

like a dog to his own vomit.

I’ll take one shot. Who called Obama “articulate”?

260. BrewFan - October 2, 2007

Please don’t feed the troll anymore. He has stated, and proved, he has a low IQ. He has also taken the craft of constructing strawmen to unprecedented heights. And finally he doesn’t have the character to admit when he’s wrong (see 158 above).

261. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Michael-
‘So, why were you referring to my friends as “smearing feces”?’

94. eddiebear – October 1, 2007
So I left a comment on Winnie’s site. Let’s see how long he lets it stay.

95. Mrs. Peel – October 1, 2007
I have a feeling that the comments to troll’s post won’t be as sweet as the ones to euphro’s.
106. PattyAnn – October 1, 2007
eddiebear, surprise! There are no comments over at Winston’s unhappy teahouse.
Now I can check off the “Free Speech For Me, But Not For Thee Unless I Agree With You” box on the Winston tally sheet, along with Intelligent Design, Halliburton, Blackwater and Bush & Company.
Predictable.

107. cranky – October 1, 2007
PA, I suppose he felt hypocritical — he now has comments. Check his blog header: ‘Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd, smiling…’

Apparently he has some self-awareness.

108. Dave in Texas – October 1, 2007
Perhaps he suffers from remorse?

109. PattyAnn – October 1, 2007
cranky, direct link please? I still don’t see any comments.

I just figured they were slavering to go over there and call me ‘retarded’ some more. They seemed very disappointed that they couldn’t immediately see their postings in a way which reminded me of taggers being annoyed about their graffiti being cleaned up. I’m sorry that saying ‘smearing feces’ upset everyone so much. I’ll try to make my words softer to your sensitive delicate ears.
-WD

262. Cuffy Meigs - October 2, 2007
263. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Michael-
No need to apologize for me. I speak for myself. Thanks for the thought, tho’
-WD

264. daveintexas - October 2, 2007

peculiar.

Did I say peculiar? I meant pathetic.

265. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Everyone-
I don’t understand how I ‘crashed’ this blog. It’s public. You put tags on the article so that people can find it. I found it because it was the biggest post on the sign in page-I didn’t come looking for you or even stumble across you-I was logging into my account when the phrase ‘ethnic disabled vajayjay celebration courses’ was stuck in my face. Since, as Geoff pointed out, there isn’t even such a thing as ‘disabled studies courses’, I found that a really needlessly snide comment. I read the post and the comment thread and shared my thoughts and impressions with you. I have very few assumptions about you and know only what you have written here (except for Geoff. He should stick to physics.) If you don’t want people like me finding you, go private. If you really can’t stand me, please just stop commenting to this thread as I’m not going anywhere else in this site. If you can’t do that, then please just outright ban me from posting.

You’re like a chick who says ‘no’ but is taking off her shirt and rubbing my crotch.
-WD

266. Cuffy Meigs - October 2, 2007

Yawn, let’s digress into art crticism:

dearlord, I scribbled crap on the back of my high school calculus notebook better than this. Is he about to nail a transvestite linebacker with a butterfly tramp stamp? Check out the shoulders on his date.

267. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Bush said it too and that’s who I was thinking of:
http://obamarama.org/2007/01/31/president-bush-jumps-on-the-articulate-black-man-bandwagon/

However, I stand corrected about the Biden thing. I will rephrase: ‘Some white people seem to think the highest compliment they can pay an African-American is to call them articulate’

All apologies and mea culpas. Kudos to you for catching me on that. My bad.

-WD

268. geoff - October 2, 2007

As you can tell from WD’s proud presentation of his response, his argumentation and analysis skills haven’t improved over the past few days. He is the sloppiest reader and writer I’ve seen in some time, so I’ve given up trying to communicate with him. I, for one, shall hasten to take him up on his generous offer – I’m leaving this thread on his assurance that he won’t soil any others.

269. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Cuffy-
What can I say? I like full-figured women.

I like big butts, and I cannot lie…

-WD

270. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Geoff-
I’m sure you have an excellent mind for physics. Not so much for race relations, though. Sorry, I calls ‘em like I sees ‘em.
-WD

271. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Cuffy-
Also, I should note that the model for that piece has a rare genetic disorder that causes her to have extra bone growth all over body. Her rib cage is entirely solid and she has had to have several surgeries to shave off extraneous bone in her legs, hips and arms. She has fine white surgical scars over most of her body. She’s quite beautiful, actually. I’m currently working on an oil nude of her. It won’t be finished for several months but I’ll be sure to post slides of it. Thank you for showing an interest in my work; do you still have your high school calculus notebook? I would love to see it.
-WD

272. Cuffy Meigs - October 2, 2007

Somewhere there’s a college course just for her and her beastly bones.

273. daveintexas - October 2, 2007

lots of comments.

keeps coming back.

begs you to ban him.

issues.

274. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Dave-
You keep commenting, too…

275. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Oh, and Dave? You have no idea how tenacious I can be.
http://home.att.net/~artcriminal/delgadovduke.html

I truly enjoy this sort of thing. Everytime I shut down a conservative talk board, an angel gets it’s wings!
-WD

276. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Cuffy-
She doesn’t go to college-she’s in a trade school to learn auto repair. She wanted to stop stripping and started working as an artists’ model. She’s very good at it and as I said her body posesses an unique beauty. She’s very comfortable with herself-the slime that used to paw her in the strip clubs had far more crude things to say about her than things like ‘beastly bones’ (which at least has alliteration). Still, I won’t pass your remarks on to her if you don’t mind.
-WD

277. daveintexas - October 2, 2007

tenacious is hot!

Everytime I shut down a conservative talk board, an angel gets it’s wings!

delusion, not so hot. Got a list?

278. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

but tenacious d is cool. Isn’t that funny how that works?

279. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Follow that link and you’ll see my first trophy.

280. daveintexas - October 2, 2007

uh huh.

follow this link

http://boringasshole.pleaseloveme.org

hey, in the interests of, whatever, I do love that eyebrow action you got going.

nice.

281. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Dave-
If I wanted you to love me I would have told you what a big, smart, sexy stud you are.

But I didn’t.

-WD

282. Cuffy Meigs - October 2, 2007

How much does she bench?

283. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Cuffy-
It’s difficult for her to lift anything too heavy. She tried waitressing but kept dropping the trays. That’s why she ended up stripping.
-WD

284. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

Ah, it looks like y’all have finally pooped out and so have I. Good night. I’ll check back in on this thread in a few days to see if there’s anything interesting here.
My unlimited love to y’all.
-WD

285. Cuffy Meigs - October 2, 2007

Can she dismantle a carburetor blindfolded?

Wait. She’s not blind, too?

286. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

I’m back!

Please pay attention to me.

287. Cuffy Meigs - October 2, 2007

Whew—thank heavens.

Now, back to your monstrously deformed (blind?) automechanic linebacker transvestite comic strip(per) model—does she also wear orthopedic shoes?

288. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

I’m still here!

I’ll make you all miserable before you get rid of me.

289. winstondelgado - October 2, 2007

I’m preparing another 500 word screed to bore you all to death. I plan on discussing 12th century European Catholicism and how it relates to the articulation of Barrack Obama.

290. Cathy - October 2, 2007

There is an upside, folks.
No need for Lunesta.
Winnie the Poop can put us all to sleep.
Yawn.

291. TattooedIntellectual - October 3, 2007

265. winstondelgado – October 2, 2007

Everyone-
I don’t understand how I ‘crashed’ this blog. It’s public. You put tags on the article so that people can find it. I found it because it was the biggest post on the sign in page-I didn’t come looking for you or even stumble across you-I was logging into my account when the phrase ‘ethnic disabled vajayjay celebration courses’ was stuck in my face. Since, as Geoff pointed out, there isn’t even such a thing as ‘disabled studies courses’, I found that a really needlessly snide comment. I read the post and the comment thread and shared my thoughts and impressions with you. I have very few assumptions about you and know only what you have written here (except for Geoff. He should stick to physics.) If you don’t want people like me finding you, go private. If you really can’t stand me, please just stop commenting to this thread as I’m not going anywhere else in this site. If you can’t do that, then please just outright ban me from posting.
-WD

I notice he addressed the crashing issue, but had nothing to say in defense of the fact that the tone of his first post is what started this shit. There are a dozen different things I see/read every day that make me laugh and scratch my head. Pretty sure I don’t wander around sharing my opinion w/ everyone.

And he would have you assume that he just innocently came across this post and innocently shared his views, and yet posts this:

275. winstondelgado – October 2, 2007

Oh, and Dave? You have no idea how tenacious I can be.
http://home.att.net/~artcriminal/delgadovduke.html

I truly enjoy this sort of thing. Everytime I shut down a conservative talk board, an angel gets it’s wings!
-WD

This is just stupid, and he’s now swapped from just “sharing his opinion” to deliberately trolling to shut down a conservative talk board. Nice!

292. Michael - October 3, 2007

Winston’s last two throwaway comments (after #284) were spam with links to commercial sites selling cigarettes, not his personal bog. I’m going to delete them.

293. Michael - October 3, 2007

Oh never mind, I just figured out that they are spoofs. Damn you, Bart.

294. Bart - October 3, 2007

Remind me never to trust you with confidential information.

295. skinbad - October 3, 2007

No such thing as disability studies courses? How about a minor?
http://depts.washington.edu/disstud/DS%20Brochure%207-05-05.doc.

296. skinbad - October 3, 2007

110. Introduction to Disability Studies. (3) Three hours of lecture per week. This course focuses on the social and personal meaning of disability and chronic illness. We will explore definitions and conceptual models for the study of disability, the history of disabled people, bio-ethical perspectives, the depiction of disability in literature and the arts, public attitudes, and legal and social policies. The course will investigate the interaction of disability with social factors such as gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, and class. The course is for students with and without disabilities, and may be of special interest to students preparing for careers in the health professions, education, law, architecture, social work, or gerontology. (F,SP) Staff

112. Women and Disability. (3) Three hours of lecture per week. This course will explore the intersection of women’s experience and disability issues, emphasizing the social and personal impact of disability and chronic illness on relationships, identity, employment, health, body image, sexuality, reproduction, motherhood, and aging. Through real stories of women’s lives which reached the media in the last decade and before, students will move toward a dynamic understanding of the impact of a range of physical, emotional, and mental disabilities in the context of current social forces and public policy. We will explore historic perspectives as well as current trends in medicine, independent living, care-giving, insurance, public benefits, law, and community activism as they affect and are affected by disabled women and girls and their families. We will discuss controversial ethical issues such as prenatal screening, wrongful birth law suits, and physician-assisted suicide. Course readings will draw on the rich literature of disabled women’s anthologies, biography and autobiograhpy, scholarly and popular literature of disability, feminist analyses, creative writing, women’s art, film, and theatre. (F,SP) Saxton

116. Disability, Identity, and Social Movements. (3) Three hours of lecture per week. This course discusses the disability movement as a social movement, examining the forces which unite and those which divide it. It attempts to capture the mood and culture of the movement — its humor, passion, and anger. Injustices which disabled people experience are recognized, and the divisions within the movement are analyzed. This is an introductory-level course and assumes no previous study of disability or social theory. (F,SP) Sherry

http://sis.berkeley.edu/catalog/gcc_list_crse_req?p_dept_name=Undergraduate+and+Interdisciplinary+Studies&p_dept_cd=UGIS

They’re not that hard to find. I didn’t think they would be.

297. Professah J - October 3, 2007

Hey guys,

I’m not intending to flame anyone here, but amid the name-calling, baiting and such I’ve heard some pretty articulate posters, TatooedIntellectual, in particular. As I have much work to do (and reading these comments has proven a wonderful way to procrastinate), I’ll end my “crashing” at this point. And not that anyone’s even remotely interested, but I pull out the “expert” card once more in that I not only teach in one of those “useless” Humanities fields, but I’m on a standing committee at my university whose job it is to tweak the gen-ed offerings.

Unlike a couple of others, I’m not sensing any racism, sexism, or other poison from you all–just a lot of frustration. Let me address these things…

1.) The new line of thinking in gen-ed stuff is that the “best practice” of teaching ________________ Studies courses is to concentrate on how various marginalized groups create their own culture in the face of social or political oppression or ambivalence, as opposed to just teaching a white-man-bad, oppressed-people-good focus. (Not everyone does this, but they oughtta.) That being said, there HAS been oppression, and while dwelling on it exclusively isn’t particularly constructive, forgetting about it completely does no one any good either.

2.) A few of the posters on this thread (not all, but some) strike me as being a little resentful about having to study something beyond their own experience. Others seem to resent having to take something that isn’t directly related to the career they want after graduation. As to the former–the reason we make you take those electives is so you don’t burn out, and because universities still value knowledge for the sake of having it. (I took an Entomology course as an elective while getting my first advanced degree in the Humanities, and loved it.) College is the last time most people will get a chance to learn something just to learn it, and universities recognize this. (If you still can’t stand the idea, go to a tech school where tree-huggers like myself won’t force you to read poems about dead flowers.) The latter, considering the across-the-board job market, is a more legitimate complaint–there’s lots of pressure, lots of requirements for most majors. So why in the blue hell should students be forced to take some of these courses?

Well…you might not get the job you want–at least, not right away. We want you to have other skills. The first two years of college are all about acquiring critical thinking, which is essential not only in academia, but out in the real world. You need those writing skills, critical reading skills, oral communication skills. Even in the hard sciences, people who can communicate effectively and accessibly are extraordinarily valuable (see Stephen Jay Gould or Carl Sagan). And if you don’t get that dream job, you’ll still need ‘em. Those classes you resent having to take are usually also skills-based, meaning there are some pretty important objectives beyond the course content that you’re supposed to take away from the experience.

So…no more from me. Time to get back to making my students hate America, turn their backs on Jesus, and snort cocaine off their Bibles.

298. Pupster - October 3, 2007

Pfft. A REAL professor would know that you snort cocaine off of a hooker’s ass.

Poser.

299. Dave in Texas - October 3, 2007

He’s quite verbose. I’m inclined to think he’s the real deal based on that alone.

300. Mrs. Peel - October 3, 2007

how various marginalized groups create their own culture

Oh, don’t even get me started on those people. They infuriate me.

(And before you blow your top, I’m nominally a member of one of these groups. But you see, to them, I’m an inauthentic sellout, because I am very successful. I have an actual job instead of being a professional victim, and I’m sure as hell not going to marry someone with my condition in order to deliberately perpetuate it in the new generation. [yes, they really do that.] So as far as the “culture” is concerned, I’m part of the problem, not the solution. Thus, the people who should be the most sympathetic to my daily struggles are, in fact, the least sympathetic, because they don’t think I should even try to be part of the rest of society. Instead, I should be sitting in a little enclave with them, complaining about how The Man is keepin’ us down. So no, I am not at all interested in sitting in a classroom to learn more about these jerks. I know more than enough about them already, thanks.)

I got all my liberal arts education in high school. My 45 hours from AP & IB exams allowed me to place out of most of the core curriculum courses and take only science/math/engineering. That was a very good thing. You are correct: I don’t see why I should have had to spend perfectly good money (granted, it was other people’s money since I was on scholarships) on courses not related to my major. I can extend my liberal arts education outside school. I don’t need the guidance of a professor to do that.

(College is “the last chance you get to learn something just to learn it” only if you refuse to teach yourself. For instance, I am currently teaching myself the rudiments of Italian and reviewing Roman history and art in preparation for a trip to Rome this winter.)

Another thing: Even with those 45 hours and with taking 12 hours of history and poli-sci at community college while I was working, it STILL took me 5 years to complete my engineering degree. Granted, that was eight semesters and a summer since I did a co-op, but even so, all the electives that I placed out of or took in community college would have accounted for 2 full semesters; whereas, if I were a philosophy major coming in with 45 hours, I’d have been able to apply all those hours to my degree and graduate in 2.5 years (I know a phil. major or two who did just that). So, for engineers at least, these courses do require an additional year in school, and that isn’t cheap, in terms of either money or time. And engineers are famously cheap*, so you can’t expect us not to be a bit resentful.

I will say that technical writing was one of the most valuable courses I took. As far as “enriching my life” or whatever, I’d put art history right there at the tippy-top. But I took that in high school, not college. IB program, folks. It’s a good thing.

*it’s not so much that we’re cheap as that we look at everything as an optimization problem, i.e., “how can I escape this situation while retaining the greatest amount of cash?” and yes, I stole that joke.

301. Bart - October 3, 2007

Explore is a big word in the syllabi, these days.

Nobody learns, they explore.

302. sobek - October 3, 2007

“College is the last time most people will get a chance to learn something just to learn it, and universities recognize this.”

What the hell are you talking about? I’m teaching myself Farsi and Algebra, just to learn them. Why should the fact that I graduated from college years ago stop me from learning?

303. kevlarchick - October 3, 2007

I taught humanities courses for 15 years. I was either loved or hated. Many said “what a waste of time.”

Many more said “I can use these speaking/writing/reasoning skills to make more money.”

One of those former students came into my office today to do some equipment repair. I spotted him and went right over. He said “Miz Kevlar, your classes taught me more about dealing with idiots than any class in my major. Dealing with idiots is pretty much what I do all day.”

304. Cathy - October 3, 2007

KC. That is so cool. What a coincidence.

Mrs. Peel, were those classes you took in high school AP classes for college credit? Just wondering.

I don’t agree with everything Professah J said,but I did appreciate the way he/she said it…engaging, polite, and even had a sense of humor. Kudos for Professah J.

I’m all for students having to take “core” coursework in their first years of college (or AP core coursework in high school), because it think it helps forms critical thinkers and decision makers. SOME of the folks I worked with in information systems who only learned programming languages were real knuckle-draggers and very hard to deal with on the business end of things…poor communication skills…lacking abilities to establish business relationships with others. Don’t get me started on that rant.

In order to graduate with a degree in business I was required to take a non-EuroAmerican study. The list included Asian Philosophy, Egyptian Art, stuff like that. If I had been forced to take some course in victim-studies (sorry if that is offensive to anyone) I’d have had major issues with it. Victimhood can morph into excusehood.

I chose Primitive Art, happy I was FORCED to take something. The prof was memorable. She knew many of us were there because we had to be there, but she had a great sense of humor and a passion for this, and it was contagious. We had a great time in class and I learned a lot.

I also discovered I had a genuine interest in learning and experiencing other cultures. A lot of our travels have been to places that I had studied. I felt like we had a leg-up in planning our itineraries, seeing good stuff and meeting very interesting people. Many people Michael and I know are surprised to hear that we are not worried about traveling to the many places we go, but I figured that if that awesome prof of mine could trek all over the world and get into the thick of all those cultures, why not us too?

I’ll never stop learning new stuff.

305. Michael - October 3, 2007

I chose Primitive Art, happy I was FORCED to take something. She knew many of us were there because we had to be there, but she had a great sense of humor and a passion for this, and it was contagious.

We got that stuff all over the house right now. We’re displaying stuff we bought real cheap from street artists all over the world. I bought Aboriginal art in Australia on a business trip. I don’t really know if it’s any good But, you just spend a few bucks to mat and frame it, and stick it on the wall like you’re serious.

We’re also displaying one piece of Kid Art that Son Michael did when he was a pre-teen, the sort of thing you normally put on the refrigerator with magnets when you have kids, but this piece is matted and framed like Serious Art. We both really like it. The textures, colors and composition are actually kinda interesting.

306. sandy burger - October 3, 2007

I’m all for students having to take “core” coursework in their first years of college

Me too.

In fact, I took a “Politics” class that was pretty decent. The professor was a liberal, of course, but the course was not about taking sides, but about understanding how things work.

But I had to take a required core class my freshman year which was so bad it’s comical to me now. It was just straight up shameless leftist propaganda.

307. Anonymous - October 3, 2007

I have no argument w/ core development classes the first 3, maybe 4 semesters. Things like critical reasoning and civics, economics, gov’t, public speaking etc. My problem was that those non-degree related classes were eating into my junior and senior year! The other problem w/ a lot of biology majors is the amount of math, physics and chem/o chem you have to take. Which can probably be tracked to the fact that biology is a horribly broad topic and to pursue different avenues you need different backgrounds.

308. TattooedIntellectual - October 3, 2007

Oops that anonymous is me. Forgot I was in the comp lab on campus.

309. Dave in Texas - October 3, 2007

As to the former–the reason we make you take those electives is so you don’t burn out, and because universities still value knowledge for the sake of having it

Cathy, love and all, but I’m not into condescension.

Especially when it comes out of my pocket, as part of the cost of “educating” my child.

Sorry prof. Fuck you, and your entrenched system. Teach my kid accounting, if that’s her chosen field. The rest of that indoctrination shit you can shove up your ass, thank you very hello.

Where’s that other asshole that claims he shuts down websites?

310. Mrs. Peel - October 3, 2007

Yep, TI, in my Wall O’ Text above, I made the same comment about biomedical engineering – placing out of all those courses and taking history & poli-sci in community college saved me a full year of school (and also kept me from a full year of lost income!).

Cathy – actually, I did the International Baccalaureate program in high school. It provides a broad liberal arts education. Getting a diploma requires a score above a certain limit on six tests from six different areas (language A, language B, history/economics, math, science, and “Group 6,” which for me was art history), in addition to 150 hours of Community, Action, Service and a 4000-word Extended Essay. Oh, and you also have to take Theory of Knowledge, which is basically an epistemology course.

Most of my IB courses prepared me for the AP exam as well, and schools don’t always give credit for IB, so I took both AP and IB exams for nearly every subject. (I took five tests in math alone, because I had to take both the Cal AB and Cal BC AP exams, as well as the SAT II math 2c, AND both the Standard Level and Higher Level IB exams. Fortunately, that was spread over two Mays. I also took three biology tests, three English tests, one German test, two economics tests, and I don’t remember what else. So I basically didn’t have to go to school for the month of May in either of my last two years.)

It’s a very demanding program, but I highly recommend it to high-achieving students. Looking back, I strongly value the liberal arts & critical thinking education I received, and I even more strongly value the fact that I was able to get it done in high school and thus focus on engineering during my college years. Biomedical engineering with a minor in electrical engineering has a pretty demanding curriculum, and the more core curriculum courses you can place out of, the sooner you graduate and the less income you lose.

311. Russ from Winterset - October 3, 2007

I tried to schedule my classes so that I had one humanities course every semester, just to keep me from being lashed to a table in Town Engineering all day long. When you’re faced with Concrete Structures, Water & Waster Water Treatment, Fluid Dynamics & Engineering Statistics, a trip across campus to attend a World Literature, Community Planning or Comparative Economics class worked as a pressure valve.

I’ve got no problem with the humanities as a concept, but I do have a problem with the ideas advocated by some of the professors in those departments. Not so much the ideas themselves, but the bullshit condescending attitudes that went along with them. “You’re just an engineer, you wouldn’t understand these things.”

Yeah, me engineer. Me not kno aboot things like how to place a bench in a park or plant trees along a highway. Designing a wastewater treatment plant for a city of one million people? Sure I can do that, but apparently I’m an emotional cripple who can’t comprehend the joy of reading Ethan Frome or Maya Angelou’s poetry.

312. See-Dub - October 3, 2007

I pity you, Russ. I pity you.

313. Cathy - October 3, 2007

I remember two very condescending profs in my early years of college…not a pretty picture. Graduating with highest honors about 8 years later was the balm that got me over the hurt. It was like I had the last word with them: See, you couldn’t keep me down. I’m not worthless. I’m not something you can dismiss that easily anymore.

314. Mrs. Peel - October 3, 2007

I preferred spending my days on Engineering Row. For one thing, the women over there were actually covered up. I’m so tired of epidermis.

I had one semester where I had Biomedical Electronics, the associated lab, Biomaterials & Artificial Internal Organs, Theoretical Analysis, Biofluid Dynamics, and Electronics. That was 17 hours of 300- and 400-level engineering courses. Not a pretty semester. (No, I did not make all A’s. Also, I managed to alienate the snooty French prof who later became department head. Let’s not discuss it further.)

315. Sobek - October 4, 2007

Dave, I think you’re off base. It’s important to learn how to think in different ways. The problems you face in a foreign language, humanities or art class are very different from those you face in a science or engineering class, and if you teach your brain how to face both different kinds of problems and find solutions, you will be a better thinker in general, and better in your chosen field in particular.

316. bartwingplover - October 4, 2007

I’ve made quite an impression on Dave.

/thumbs up

317. eddiebear - October 4, 2007

Russ:
Biz school wasn’t too bad, and languages was cool, but my lit classes were nothing more than grievance mongering.

318. Dave in Texas - October 4, 2007

Why does a Bachelor of Science in the Liberal Arts curricula require a foreign language but a BBA does not?

I didn’t argue (but I should have) that I can agree with you up to a point. The “point” is “liberal indoctrination”. I have a senior at UT and while the plural of anecdote is not data, I have some anecdote.

319. Dave in Texas - October 4, 2007

Cathy, sorry for the miscommunication in 309. I meant condescension from the Professor, you were in no way condescending.

Careless of me, I didn’t say it well. However I am a moron and as such inarticulate.

So I suppose he’s right about that.

320. The Pretty Things Are Going To Hell « Teahouse of the Furious Buddha - October 4, 2007

[...] 266. Cuffy Meigs – October 2, 2007 Yawn, let’s digress into art crticism: [...]

321. winstondelgado - October 4, 2007

Thanks for playing!
-WD

322. skinbad - October 4, 2007

A appreciate Winston confining himself to this thread. That’s very courteous. Practically un-trollish.

323. Cathy - October 4, 2007

Thanks Dave.
Morons, messes, misfits?
My kinda friends!
No prob. Loveya.

324. Retired Geezer - October 4, 2007

*Geezer checks in… reads about 100 comments… goes back to unpacking his Manly Hunting Stuff*

325. winstondelgado - October 4, 2007

Skinbad-
That’s because I’m not a troll.

Dave in Texas-I’m right here:
http://winstondelgado.wordpress.com/2007/10/04/the-pretty-things-are-going-to-hell/
and it was message boards, not websites, and I never threatened to do that here. I have no desire to do that. I agree with the Prof-you’re probably decent enough peope. I was just letting you know that I’m not a troll.

Thanks for the comments, Michael. They were more satisfying than I can tell you. I will not return to this thread and don’t expect to return to your site.
-WD

326. Manly Hunting Stuff - October 4, 2007

TAKE US TO THE LAUNDRY ROOM!

327. The Elk - October 4, 2007

Yeah, we could smell you a mile away.

Also, skip the beanie-weenie when you’re hunting, OK?

328. Cuffy Meigs - October 25, 2007

Hey, Michael, I had no idea you were disavowing/defending me over at trollgado’s blog or that he even found Deeper Meaning in my criticism of his art. No worries—I stated my case there (same link as #325).

329. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

Cuffy-
Traditionally speaking, ‘art criticism’ doesn’t consist of insulting the body of the model. For example, one generally doesn’t hear the complaint that ‘the Mona Lisa got no titties’ or that the Venus de Milo’s ‘ass is huge’.
I don’t know who you are Cuffy, so I had no idea as to your indulgence of my tales. That’s why I just tell the truth. People who know me read this stuff and I’d have to look them in the eye at some point and I’m not going to be making up stories of people with disabilities just to win an argument with some thoughtless punk. I don’t give a shit if you believe me or not, but from where I was sitting, watching you pick that particular drawing out of the hundreds you had to choose from was astonishing. That you chose to level all of your bile at the body of the model was sad but probably all you are mentally capable of. However, it was an event so unlikely that I found it very inspiring. Perhaps you could try out that ‘art criticism’ thing again. I would love to hear what you thought of these pages…
http://home.att.net/~privateart/the_furious_buddha_vs_the_innocent_bystanders.html
-WD

330. Sobek - October 29, 2007

“I will not return to this thread and don’t expect to return to your site.”

Promises, promises.

331. eddiebear - October 29, 2007

How do you get Winston to leave your thread?

Pay him for the pizza.

332. geoff - October 29, 2007

Poor guy, apparently we scarred him for life.

333. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

Sobek-
I’m just letting you all know about an update to the discussion. Cuffy posted a comment at my site so I’m keeping you filled in. I’m sorry I spooked you so much that you don’t want to ever hear from me again. I’m not trying to bully you. If you get scared by my face, just ignore it.
-WD

334. eddiebear - October 29, 2007

That’s an “artiste” for you.

335. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

Ooooh, Geoff!
What did you think of Professor Quantum? I hope you like him.

336. daveintexas - October 29, 2007

Hey, he managed to stay away over 3 weeks.

That’s not bad.

337. geoff - October 29, 2007

What did you think of Professor Quantum? I hope you like him.

I hope you didn’t spend a lot of time on it.

338. daveintexas - October 29, 2007

The dog is looking at me with considerable anxiety.

339. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

‘I hope you didn’t spend a lot of time on it.’

-Not much at all. It didn’t require much thought. I think it shows. Still, it tickled me silly. Thank you guys, really. You have no idea how much fun this has all been. I know how agitated you all get when I’m present so I will leave you be again. I think I’ve said pretty much what I need to for now.
My unlimited love to y’all,
-WD

340. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

Mmmmm-
Cuffy seems to be blocking me from posting comments to his site. Could you all be dears and let him know about this?
http://home.att.net/~privateart/the_furious_buddha_vs_the_innocent_bystanders.html

Thank you so much for your helpfulness.
-WD

341. Sobek - October 29, 2007

“I’m sorry I spooked you so much …”

Oh, I don’t care if you stay or if you go. It’s just that it’s hard to take a guy seriously who claims he’s never coming back, and who then obsessively draws up a ten-page comic book of sorts about it.

342. Mr Minority - October 29, 2007

WD,
I viewed your little comic book on the IBs, and I have to say that I think your image of Cuffy is really a projection of how you want to be viewed. A big pink gay guy in a string bikini, fits you better than Cuffy.

343. eddiebear - October 29, 2007

I know I shouldn’t have, but I read that “comic” over at WDG’s site.
That reminds me of the scribblings some of the emo artistic types at my high school used to draw when they were in class, dreaming about either beating up or outwitting the jocks ( we were an all boys school, so their Olbermannesque fantasies about hurting the attractive girls were limited to the group bitch sessions they would have with the emo girls from the all girls schools in the area). Nice to see Winnie has grown beyond his high school art class days to serious endeavors.

344. Dave in Texas - October 29, 2007

My goddam irony meter is broken again.

345. eddiebear - October 29, 2007

Wait, I thought Cuffy was wearing a kilt. Couldn’t tell, the art sucked so bad. He didn’t even give Brewfan the correct Brewers Cap

346. eddiebear - October 29, 2007

Now if he would have put Michael in the Adam West Batman Suit, that would have been funny.

347. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

Mr. Minorty-
I use a picture of myself to project how I want to be viewed. Also, I never said that Cuffy was gay. Pink is just a very feminine color and Cuffy seemed obsessed with ladies being dainty. Also, he’s not wearing a string bikini-that’s a training bra and a plaid schoolgirl skirt.

eddiebear-
I was trying to post the link at Cuffy’s site where he makes fun of retarded people-
http://perfunction.typepad.com/perfunction/2007/10/guess-the-corky.html
-and I’m apparently blocked for some reason. Could you make sure he gets that? Also, could you explain how making fun of retarded and disabled people is what mature grown ups do?
Oh wait, sorry. I’m not posting here anymore. Never mind.
-WD

348. wiserbud - October 29, 2007

heh. He deep-throated the “sword” that he just had “plunged deep” into Cuffy.

Methinks someone’s a little sweet on the Cuffster….

349. Dave in Texas - October 29, 2007

You gotta admit Cuff’s got a certain animal attraction thing going for him.

350. eddiebear - October 29, 2007

Winnie, for somebody not posting here anymore, you certainly are posting here a lot.

351. Mr Minority - October 29, 2007

Also, he’s not wearing a string bikini-that’s a training bra and a plaid schoolgirl skirt.

Oh, in that case, it’s ok.
/sarcasm

WD,
In your world are there hooka smoking caterpillars?

Honestly, I have to admit that viewing your comic has given me a great insight into how you view yourself as a force of “Good” and the IBers as hicks, S&Mers, idiots in costumes, and giant pink morons. It must be nice to be able to distort reality in your world.

352. Cathy - October 29, 2007

@333 I’m just letting you all know about an update to the discussion.

@335 What did you think of Professor Quantum?
@339 I know how agitated you all get when I’m present so I will leave you be again.
@340 Cuffy seems to be blocking me from posting comments to his site.
@347 Also, could you explain how making fun of retarded and disabled people is what mature grown ups do?
Oh wait, sorry. I’m not posting here anymore. Never mind.

The operative word is JUST. I guess we don’t know what that word means.

353. geoff - October 29, 2007

I have to admit that viewing your comic has given me a great insight…

I must admit that I only looked at the first page and a couple of random pages and gave up – it was all too masturbatory to bother with. I was amused at the intro on the first page, though, where he basically tells us that he’s a troll, despite all his protestations here. That makes him, on yet another occasion, a liar.

I blame Cuffy for the perpetuation of this inanity.

And Michael, of course.

354. Cathy - October 29, 2007

Yep, Geoff.

It’s plain and simple.
Liar and troll.

You nail-gunned it.

355. Dave in Texas - October 29, 2007

Goddammit I almost had this thing fixed until he reminded us he’s not commenting here (again).

356. Cathy - October 29, 2007

I use a picture of myself to project how I want to be viewed.

Wow.

He’s got the dynamics of human nature and relationships down pat.

I guess that is why he did so well here at IB.

357. Mr Minority - October 29, 2007

Cathy,
I really don’t think WD views himself as a troll, he lives in an alternate reality in which his main objective to fight the Evil Conservative for Lies, Injustice and Communist Way.

358. Pupster - October 29, 2007

That comic is just precious. Furious Buddha with a flaming sword indeed. Timmy in the well needs to be in on this one.

359. Cuffy Meigs - October 29, 2007

Cuffy seems to be blocking me from posting comments to his site. Could you all be dears and let him know about this?

Winston, you pathetic douche LIAR. I don’t even know how to block comments on my blog. Indeed, I recently ditched CAPTCHA to make it even easier for people to comment.

Your mulitple “hey, tell Cuffy this and that, and oh go see my blog” comments are transparent pleas for attention.

And I was making fun of Keillor, not handicapable folks.

360. Cuffy Meigs - October 29, 2007

oh, and also Winston, I see from my logs that you’ve been pinging my blog hourly all morning, and now lie about getting blocked in a desperate attempt to get me back to your blog.

I’m not that into you.

Everyone else, I profusely apologize for reanimating The Artist.

361. Cathy - October 29, 2007

No need to take responsibility for his issues.

362. Dave in Texas - October 29, 2007

Cuffy, did you get my multiple emails and voice messages conveying Winston’s urgent requests?

363. Bart - October 29, 2007

Cuffy, if you happen to get a few unintelligible voice messages with a lot of uncontrollable sobbing, they’re not from me. Just saying.

Hey, it was a rough weekend. Don’t Judge me!*

*I miss the pinto. :(

364. Mr Minority - October 29, 2007

I miss the pinto

And which manly part of him do you miss?

365. Mr Minority - October 29, 2007

Bart,
Someone had to say it, and it might as well have been me.

366. Cuffy Meigs - October 29, 2007

fyi, just got pinged again by this weirdo.

367. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

Cuffy-(&the rest)
I’ve checked your blog several times and I didn’t see the comment that I tried to post several times (that would explain all of the pings), but I just tried it again and it worked. So I withdraw whatever insinuation you think I was making. I was just telling you what I was experiencing-the post didn’t take. Before the rest of you start calling me a liar or whatever for reposting here, I feel that if you are going to address me here then it is appropriate for me to respond here. As has been pointed out by several of you, I’m confining my comments to this thread and I don’t call you names or use obscenities.

I’m sorry you all get worked up into such a tizzy from my teasing-after all, you all expect the handicapped, minorities and women to be such good sports when you’re joshing them, right? They’re only some doodles I knocked out while I was watching the Bears lose. You shouldn’t be so thin-skinned. I only cast you as you cast yourselves-Mrs Peel, the Brewfan who thinks women beating jokes are funny, the quantum physicist, the batman who doesn’t know how to fight, and of course, dear sweet cuddly Cuffy! (I know there’s so many more of you but I only had an afternoon to knock this out so I stuck with key characters to keep it simple. I did give Dave and moonbat a shout-out though!) This is how I see you because this is how you’ve chosen to show yourselves to me. As I told Geoff when he was whining about how his words looked on my site, he should consider how they sounded on his first.
Geoff, when I look at that ‘corky’ post, I don’t really see a joke pointed at Garrison Keillor so much as I see a monkey flinging his feces. I understand the viceral hatred many of you feel toward liberals like Keillor and I encourage you to express it in any way that his healthy for you-however, by comparing Keillor to someone with Down’s Syndrome you are literally insulting people with Down’s Syndrome. I hope you laugh at that because it is supposed to be funny but it’s also true. I’m not going to tell you to say something or not say something or even how to say what it is you want to say; I’m telling you what I hear when you say it.
-WD

368. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

In the above, the bit addressed to ‘geoff’ should have been ‘cuffy’. Sorry, my bad.

369. wiserbud - October 29, 2007

This guy takes longer to say “Farewell” than Cher! And he’s almost as butch!

370. wiserbud - October 29, 2007

however, by comparing Keillor to someone with Down’s Syndrome you are literally insulting people with Down’s Syndrome.

Well, he does have a point. Much like comparing trollgado to a lobotomized, syphilitic, attention-starved whore with daddy issues is an insult to lobotomized, syphilitic, attention-starved whores with daddy issues everywhere

371. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

‘Much like comparing trollgado to a lobotomized, syphilitic, attention-starved whore with daddy issues is an insult to lobotomized, syphilitic, attention-starved whores with daddy issues everywhere’

Exactly, wiserbud. You begin to understand. Calling somebody ‘retarded’ as an insult is degrading to all retarded people. If you dislike someone and wish to insult them, you should be specific in your aim so that you do not miss and inadvertently harm an innocent bystander.
-WD

372. Mr Minority - October 29, 2007

I understand the viceral hatred many of you feel toward liberals like Keillor and I encourage you to express it in any way that his healthy for you-however, by comparing Keillor to someone with Down’s Syndrome you are literally insulting people with Down’s Syndrome.

WD,
You are making a false assumption that we hate liberals, when in fact, it is more of a loathing than a hatred. But the biggest problem I see that you have here is that totally misunderstand this site and the main premise behind it. It is for us (well I would like to think I am an official IBer, but since I am not on the blogroll, maybe I should say I am a wannabe IBer) to comment on a post, it is not the post itself that is relevant, but the comments. the post can be something as innocuous as a video or the corruption of the minds of college students by liberal professors and stupid “studies” classes. Whatever it is, we comment on it, trying to be sarcastic, witty, serious, or darn right inflammatory, we run the gambit. You happened upon this post, and went bonkers, thus raising the ire of the regular IBers. Thus you should not feel as if you have been alienated, because you brought it upon yourself, by being sanctimonious and uppity.

If your purpose is to piss the IBers off, you have done that to 1 or 2, but the rest really don’t give a damn. If you want to fit in here, then don’t be pretentious or “better than thou”, because that really won’t cut it.

I am telling you this, because I believe that deep down, you may have some redeeming characteristic, that hasn’t surfaced yet. If you want to be a liberal, that is fine, but don’t expect us to change sides, or acknowledge your viewpoints as being valid, because in actuality, we are smarter than that.

I don’t know how long these back and forth comments will go on, because I have a feeling that you may have reached the point that you will be ignored as you would a common troll.

373. wiserbud - October 29, 2007

You begin to understand.

Oh, I totally understand. If I were a lobotomized, syphilitic, attention-starved whores with daddy issues and someone compared me to you, I’d be totally freaking pissed off!

374. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

Mr. Minority-
You say-
‘You are making a false assumption that we hate liberals, when in fact, it is more of a loathing than a hatred.’
This is from your post at your site from earlier today:

‘The Donk’s hatred of Blacks continued into the 60’s where they resisted the civil rights movement and any passage of civil rights laws. Where as today, they pander to Blacks, and use them for votes, their hatred of Republicans is still in their evil hearts, and you know that their wish to kill them is not far below the surface either.’

You say you only loathe people that you think wish to kill you? What’s wrong with you? I thought you were a gun owner! Where’s your sense of self-defense, man? If people wish to kill you it is necessary to oppose them with every fiber of your being-hate. Loathing is for people you simply feel superior to.
-WD

375. wiserbud - October 29, 2007

What part of Mr. Minority’s comment didn’t you get? He said he loathed liberals. And I’m pretty sure he knew what he meant when he said it. Or are we all just supposed to be impressed that <you understand what he said?

376. Cuffy Meigs - October 29, 2007

Way to go, Mr. M — you made the list. Now it’s a race to see who finds a boiling rabbit, you or me.

377. Mr Minority - October 29, 2007

What’s wrong with you? I thought you were a gun owner! Where’s your sense of self-defense, man? If people wish to kill you it is necessary to oppose them with every fiber of your being-hate.

I am a gun owner, and I do believe in self defense, but that doesn’t mean I am going to go out and shoot a flaming liberal. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.

Loathing is for people you simply feel superior to.

I believe I am morally superior, because I have values that are not relativistic or humanistic.

378. daveintexas - October 29, 2007

Calling somebody Winston ‘retarded’ as an insult is degrading to all retarded people.

Fixed that for ya.

379. Michael - October 29, 2007

As has been pointed out by several of you, I’m confining my comments to this thread . . .

That’s your choice. I don’t care where you comment.

. . . and I don’t call you names or use obscenities.

Thank you. That’s why you’re not getting banned as a troll. You are mostly civil, and may express any opinion you wish.

I’m sorry you all get worked up into such a tizzy from my teasing

I, for one, am not in a tizzy. Your depiction of Batman was sorta amusing. You’re wrong to suggest that I’m some sort of leader of this cult, however. I’m sorta like the retarded school janitor who sweeps up and takes out the trash.

Calling somebody ‘retarded’ as an insult is degrading to all retarded people.

Oops.

380. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

Oh Cuffy, I like Mr Minority just fine. I’m just trying to help him keep his rhetoric straight. After all, on his blog he’s voicing suspicions that liberals want to kill him, but here he’s saying that he merely loathes them. Since he’s not an official Innocent Bystander I thought I would help correct him because I know what sticklers for detail you guys are. We wouldn’t want to do anything rude that offends anyone, would we?
-WD

381. Cuffy Meigs - October 29, 2007

We wouldn’t want to do anything rude that offends anyone, would we?

Of course not, Corky.

382. Bart - October 29, 2007

Michael, you’re such a pussy.

Actually, you give pussies everywhere a bad name.

383. Mr Minority - October 29, 2007

We wouldn’t want to do anything rude that offends anyone, would we?

Offend?!?! Here at IB?!?! Dear God, NEVER!!!

I’m just trying to help him keep his rhetoric straight.

Hey, Erg, I don’t spew rhetoric, that would be the realm of the Left. I may embellish a few things, but never would I encroach on the Left’s trademark of rhetoric spewing.

384. Michael - October 29, 2007

by being sanctimonious and uppity.

Ouch, Mr. M. See, that’s why you are not on the blogroll. You use politically incorrect words like “uppity.”

If you want to fit in here, then don’t be pretentious or “better than thou”, because that really won’t cut it.

Right on, Mr. M! We’re all God’s children, after all.

If you want to be a liberal, that is fine, but don’t expect us to change sides, or acknowledge your viewpoints as being valid, because in actuality, we are smarter than that.

Erm, Mr. M, I think you just pegged Dave’s irony meter again.
:)

385. daveintexas - October 29, 2007

(well I would like to think I am an official IBer, but since I am not on the blogroll, maybe I should say I am a wannabe IBer)

This ignominy, this crime, has been corrected by moi.

Many pardons.

386. Michael - October 29, 2007

This guy takes longer to say “Farewell” than Cher! And he’s almost as butch!

That is intolerable. Cher is HOT!!! I demand a retraction.

387. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

Michael-
Thank you for being a good sport. I do find it totally hilarious that your avatar is Batman and yet you’re the most diplomatic of the bunch. Actually, you might get a kick out of this:

http://winstondelgado.wordpress.com/2007/10/10/see-what-happens-when-i-post-at-a-liberal-blog/

I really enjoy chatting with people on your side of the political aisle ever so much more. It sharpens my wits. Liberals make me feel dull and woozy.
-WD

388. Mr Minority - October 29, 2007

Cher is HOT!!! I demand a retraction erection!

There Michael, I fixed that for you.

This ignominy, this crime, has been corrected by moi.

I am in your debt Dave, you have made me feel like Narvin Johnson did when he discovered he was in the phone book.

389. Michael - October 29, 2007

Michael, you’re such a pussy.

At least I don’t shave it.

390. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

‘Of course not, Corky.’

Cuffy-
I’m not going to take guff from some Ayn Rand fan who names himself after the Stalinist thug in one of the worst books of all time. If you really want me to go away, stop squirming. It only makes me more interested.
-WD

391. Mr Minority - October 29, 2007

Liberals make me feel dull and woozy.

Because they tend to be one dimensional and spout/follow the party line, where we are multi-dimensional and will spout anything and everything.

392. Michael - October 29, 2007

Michael-Thank you for being a good sport. I do find it totally hilarious that your avatar is Batman and yet you’re the most diplomatic of the bunch.

Thank you, Winston, but you give me too much credit. I just think that a pet retard is good for traffic.

393. daveintexas - October 29, 2007

*person with issues alert*

you make it kinda fuckin obvious dude, I hear you made drawings and all. Haven’t seen them. I’d look, ok, that’s a lie, I can’t work up the least bit of interest, and I’ve been photoshopped by some classy hatahs.

Is that the sum totale of your intertube contrary things?

*tip* you should stop saying you’re not commenting here anymore.

Because that is fucking pathetic.

394. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

Dave-
As I said, if you’re going to continue to address me directly, then I shall respond as long as I remain interested. I didn’t draw you, I just referred to you as the ‘funny cowboy’, so you’re not really missing anything.
And yes, Dave, I have issues. Many, many deep and painful issues that cause me to cry and bite my pillow at night and feel hopeless longing that will never be satiated. It is true. I am a Chicago sports fan.
-WD

395. geoff - October 29, 2007

Cuffy. Cuffy. Cuffy.

You’re buying the first three rounds.

396. Mr Minority - October 29, 2007

I am a Chicago sports fan.

Damn, if I had known that I wouldn’t have been so harsh on you.

397. Michael - October 29, 2007

I am a Chicago sports fan.

I have a grudging admiration for Cubs fans. George Will is a Cubs fan. You have to respect the dedication to a hopeless cause.

398. daveintexas - October 29, 2007

Yes, yes.

It’s me keeping you here.

399. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

No Dave, not you.

400. Mrs. Peel - October 29, 2007

geoff, I hope you saw your outfit in the comic. It was almost as good as mine. *makes notation on shopping list*

401. daveintexas - October 29, 2007

You should try sounding out those phrases, before you type them.

That’s a Sullivan-esque reversal.

402. Mr Minority - October 29, 2007

It was almost as good as mine.

Mrs Peel,
Without sounding too sexist, your outfit was HOT!

403. Mrs. Peel - October 29, 2007

Brew might have to agree that you can’t beat that. The gun was a nice touch, though I am more of a .45 revolver person.

404. wiserbud - October 29, 2007

deep and painful issues that cause me to cry and bite my pillow at night

{cough}

Heh.

405. mesablue - October 29, 2007

I am a Chicago sports fan.

So it’s his fault that God won’t let the Cubbies win a World Series.

Fucker.

406. BrewFan - October 29, 2007

Hey Winston, what do you tell a woman with two black eyes?

407. BrewFan - October 29, 2007

BTW, Winston, it might be wrong to be bonked by Mrs. Peel in your world but not in mine.

408. daveintexas - October 29, 2007

I sense disaster for the Pack.

I feel it.

I also have to go to bed. 5:20 flight tomorrow, gotta get up at 3.

argh.

409. Muslihoon - October 29, 2007

I thought I saw Wicked today in a class I took today. But I was too shy to go up and ask, “Hey, are you WickedPinto?” I did check the sign-in sheet and did not see his real name (as I remember it) there. (And, no, I do not remember his real name as being “Wicked Pinto”.)

I really do miss him.

410. Mrs. Peel - October 29, 2007

Me too, Musli.

If I ever spotted someone I thought was one of y’all, most likely Dave, I would probably stare for a little bit, then find an excuse to walk over, and while within earshot of the putative fellow commenter, make some sort of Paul Anka-related remark to see if I get a response.

So, if a chick in a black leather catsuit walks up to you and says, “Don’t make a f’n maniac out of me,” that’s who it is.

411. wiserbud - October 29, 2007

if a chick in a black leather catsuit walks up to you and says, “Don’t make a f’n maniac out of me,” that’s who it is.

if I had a nickel for every time that’s happened to me…..

412. Cuffy Meigs - October 29, 2007

if a chick in a black leather catsuit walks up to you and says, “Don’t make a f’n maniac out of me,” that’s who it is.

It. Moved.

Please continue.

413. winstondelgado - October 29, 2007

Yes, do go on.

414. Cuffy Meigs - October 29, 2007

BUZZKILL.

415. wiserbud - October 29, 2007

Brewfan, jokes about domestic violence just are not funny. Really. They just aren’t.

Really not funny at all.

416. Mrs. Peel - October 29, 2007

Sorry, WD, but you would get the Chris Klein references instead: “Hey, thanks for the attention, but get out of my face.”

417. winstondelgado - October 30, 2007

I’m sorry to ruin your fun, Cuffy. But you keep squirming.
-WD

418. Muslihoon - October 30, 2007

Sharp turn…now.

Someone I know has been complaining of a heaviness in his chest, mainly in the right side, with occasional dull throbbing. Nothing very painful or sharp.

What is worrisome is that he has a condition that predisposes him to heart problems. He does not smoke, so I don’t think this is a lung issue. It seems to be on the wrong side for it to be a heart issue.

Could this be a case of just some momentary uneasiness? I wont to check before I panic and make him go to a doctor.

419. Sobek - October 30, 2007

I get the impression that WD isn’t the kind to placate.

I liked the drawing of Geoff. Very well done. And dressing up the IB gang like that, well other than swallowing a flaming sword that touched Cuffy’s balls, it’s been done:

http://sobekpundit.blogspot.com/2006/05/official-sobekpundit-blogger-interview.html

Honestly, I didn’t pay attention to the first two hundred or so posts here, so I have no idea what the original argument was. All I know is that you seem hell-bent on perpetuating a meta-meta-argument, for reasons that are far beyond me.

420. Sobek - October 30, 2007

Panic. Chest pain is not something to screw with. Panic and be relieved when you find out you overreacted. Don’t underreact and freak out later.

421. harrison - October 30, 2007

What Dr. Sobek said.

422. sandy burger - October 30, 2007

It could be a spontaneous pneumothorax. An X-ray could easily tell. Of course, it’s probably just a pulled muscle or something. But why not pop into the ER anyhow? It’s OK to go to the doctor for a minor ailment that you’re not sure about; that’s what they’re there for.

423. Bart - October 30, 2007

Who doesn’t get chest pain every now and then?

It’s normal, isn’t it?

424. mesablue - October 30, 2007

Nope, but I’ve got nerve impingements in both my shoulders so the shooting pain down the arm thing isn’t going to help me narrow things down.

425. Mrs. Peel - October 30, 2007

Musli, TI can probably explain this better, but from what I remember from Physiology for Bioengineers, the chest is not an area that has a lot of nerve endings for pain. So the pain tends to be very diffuse, not localized. So just because your friend feels the pain on the right side doesn’t mean that’s where it really is. I’m with the croc doc – go ahead and panic and hie thee to the ER.

Sobek, I had to dress up as a man in your interview, so I’m thinking I like troll’s a little better. Plus, I got a gun in his version, even if it was a bit wee. (I say if you’re going to have a penis substitute, no point in it being weeny, right?) That’s definitely better than being the Scarecrow. No offense.

426. eddiebear - October 30, 2007

After looking at the comic, I am doubly convinced Winnie just likes to start arguments and has severe emotional problems that lead to bizzare fantasies.

427. daveintexas - October 30, 2007

You had to look at his cartoons to figure that out? I think he’s licking Cuffy’s IP address right now.

Muslihoon, tell your friend not to screw around with chest pains.

http://daveintexas.wordpress.com/2006/09/17/sudden-dumbass-death-syndrome/

Get him to go see a doc, now. Not tomorrow. If it’s nothing, good. If it’s something, waiting is a bad plan.

428. Muslihoon - October 30, 2007

ER check out the issue: was a false alarm. Thanks folks! Better safe than sorry, that’s for sure.

429. Michael - October 30, 2007

Thanks for letting us know, Musli.

430. BrewFan - October 30, 2007

I sense disaster for the Pack.

You need a new senser :)

GoPackGo!!

431. Michael - October 30, 2007

That should have been “sensor,” Brew.

432. Muslihoon - October 30, 2007

Censer?

433. eddiebear - October 31, 2007

^was incense involved?
Oh, and good thing it was a false alarm

434. Ty Harris - November 14, 2007

It’s pretty ironic that in the land of “tolerance” and “diversity” ( liberal dominated academia ), the idea of letting students actually hear viewpoints that are favorable to patriotism, capitalism, limited government, and conservative moral values is considered controversial. The fact of the matter is that total domination of public education has always been a critical component of the counterculture’s multi-generational MISSION to replace traditional values and ideas with their own secular-progressive vision of the future. They’ve been highly sucessful at it too, and anybody who challenges their hegemony is cruising for big trouble. In fact, over 90% of tenured professors self-identify as liberal now, and anybody who messes with their bowl of rice by trying to contradict their world-view is AT LEAST going to be intimidated, and as likely as not, if they persist, are going to get run out of town on a rail. Try going to CU -Boulder near where I live and speaking on campus in favor of conservative moral values, lower taxes, the traditional family structure, second-amendment rights, capitalism, the republican party, militarism, or patriotism or anything else in this vein. It’s just about the intellectual equivelant of walking into gestapo headquarters and announcing your jewish heritage. There is a climate of fear, intimidation, exclusion and downright hatred for all things patriotic or conservatiove on a LOT of college campuses these days, and the tenured academics tolerate NO dissent or impudence of this sort. Conservative studies indeed! That would be an outrage of the first magnitude! It must be stopped at all cost! For those of you who think I exaggerate, check out this link to what they did to Dr. William Dembski- a dual PHD in Math and Philosophy, and a noted advocate for Intelligent Design , who tried to start an informatics lab on campus to investigate the nature of CSI (complex specified information) as it relates to genetic code and biological structures. He was tarred, feathered, and run out of town on a rail for having the AUDACITY to be asking any impertinent questions about century-old darwinian dogma in th elight of new knowledge as it relates to the genetic code viewed as information. God help you too these days, if you are a student, professor or researcher who questions any of the outlandish exagerations of the global-warming scare-mongerers. People like Dr. Heidi Cullen and the tenured thought/speech police will do everything they can to DESTROY you if you speak out or offer contrary opinions to liberal dogma on any number of issues. My co-worker recently showed me her textbook on “rhetorical analysis”. I opened the book to a page completely at random, and found that the author had managed to squeeze the words feminism, imperialism, colonialism, and multi-culturalism into a single sentence ( ! ) in reference to Pocohontas- ( which had fuck-all to do with rhetorical analysis by the way ). The common thread that seems to run through ANY subjects on campus now is barely-disguised hatred of America and conservatism. It’s not about learning anymore. It’s indoctrination, plain and simple. It’s about churning out as many mush-brained, shiny-happy-people-holding-hands, future democrat, kool-aid drinkers as possible.

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=532

http://tyharris.wordpress.com

435. Retired Geezer - November 14, 2007

Welcome Ty, you’ll fit right in here.

436. Muslihoon - November 14, 2007

*fume*

I’m supposed to be the one with long, rambling screeds.

437. Ty Harris - November 14, 2007

Sorry, but the new king of rambling screeds is in da’ house. My love-affair with the run-on sentence began in the 7nth grade and I’ve never looked back!

438. Retired Geezer - November 14, 2007

Ty’s got some interesting essays at his blog.

No graphs though.

He’s got a post on NASA that will get Mrs. Peel’s attention.

439. lauraw - December 7, 2009

I’m getting deja vu.
Hasn’t this same person backtracked here several times?

I’m not following the link.

440. Dave in Texas - December 7, 2009

But it’s critical to make this selection correctly.

I mean, you can see that right there.

441. Russ from Winterset - December 7, 2009

Polly want a BA in Conservative Studies?

Michael - December 7, 2009

Yeahp, it has shown up repeatedly even though I keep sending it to the spam bucket.


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