Book Club – A Confederacy of Dunces – Concluding Thoughts (Part III) February 5, 2011
Posted by Cathy in Art, Literature.trackback
And now for the third and final Part III of the Innocent Bystanders Book Club discussion of the book A Confederacy of Dunces, where we share Concluding Thoughts.
Help yourself to any/all of these focus questions and share your response:
- Although this book is longer than the average novel, Walker Percy fought against it being severely edited. What do you think of his decision? If you were to expand or cut something, what would it be?
- The book is elaborately plotted, but does it work? What do you find unbelievable or improbable?
- In the forty years since A Confederacy of Dunces was written our attitudes toward what constitutes pornography have changed. Given the same circumstances, would Lana Lee be arrested today for her bird show? Develop a scenario suitable for today’s more permissive times.
- It is unusual for a current novel to use written dialect. Would A Confederacy of Dunces be the same if characters like Burma and Santa spoke in standard English?
- In the twenty-plus years since it’s publication A Confederacy of Dunces has become a cult novel. What does that mean to you? Give examples of other cult novels you may have read. Have you joined in slavish devotion to any of these works?
- In a letter dated March 5, 19065, Tool critiques his own novel writing that he “was certain that the Levys were the book’s worst flaw: and “that couple kept slipping from my grasp as I tried to manipulate them throughout the book” (Nevils and hardy, page 139). What did Toole mean? And do you agree? Are they the only characters who don’t come to life? Toole lauds other characters as being representative of New Orleans. Who do you think they might be?
- ANY OTHER FOCUS QUESTIONS from beloved IB Book Club readers is welcome. Just ask away in the comment thread and kind of announce it so that we all are aware and can respond.
Thank you! Hope you all had as much fun as I, but that’s not likely.
Also, please include suggested recommendations for our next book. Nominations and votes will come soon to keep this rolling for those in the throes of cabin fevah!
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The movement of that Boethius book from person to person to person kind of intrigues me but I don’t know if it’s truly significant.
Again, the very end of the book gave me some kind of hope that Ignatius could possibly start behaving decently toward other people.
He felt gratitude; he recognized it, and he acted on it affectionately (kissing Myrna’s hair).
Totally not like him. So that was nice.
Which is not to say that I wouldn’t have preferred he be caught and taken away in a straitjacket by burly nuthouse workers, and the last chapter be about him getting electroshock treatments.
Because I would. Have preferred that.
Not sure what to say about the cult status of this novel, but hey, it takes all kinds.
OK, here is my review. I have been holding back, trying to give it a chance, but now I’ll tell you what I think:
This book sucked.
Sure, there were a few redeeming moments of humor and human interest, plus a little genuine New Orleans vibe, but these do not redeem my general reaction that it was –
1. Tendentious. Toole was a closed mind with emotional issues and a personal agenda.
2. Flat character development. Even initially interesting characters, like Jones or Mrs. Levy, were static. “Whoa!”
3. Pretentious in it’s show of semi-lite erudition (so you read some Boethius, big deal).
4. Tedious, as in the unbearably verbose journal entries by Ignatius.
5. Annoying. For example — someone mentioned this earlier — the amount of unrealistic “screaming” in the dialogue between the characters is both irritating and disrupts the suspension of disbelief that allows you to get into the novel. Same thing with the mysterious “valve” issue and the belching. It’s just not believable.
6. Unenlightening. Ask yourself, “What did I learn from slogging through this book?” Answer: nothing.
How the fuck did this piece of shit win a Pulitzer Prize?
It’s pretty clear to me.
(a) The overall laudatory endorsement of implacably nonconformist and offensive behavior in opposition to The Establishment, whether Mrs. Reilly (the mother), or Officer Mancuso (the law), or his various employers (the corrupt capitalist economy), or Jones’ Negro rebellion against Lana and the Night of Joy (the racist white hierarachy), was politically correct, and remains so to this day.
(b) The author had the good sense to commit suicide, thereby establishing his bona fides as an artist.
Get that? In case you haven’t noticed, the liberal establishment is anti-human-life, whether they are talking about abortion or green energy or DDT.
Thus, suicide is a credential, especially given the precedent of genuine artists like Hemingway, who was likely suffering from bipolar disorder, alcohol dependence, traumatic brain injury, and narcissistic personality traits (according to Wikipedia) at the time of his death.
We Christians think otherwise. We think we were made in the image of God.
*grits teeth
I couldn’t have said it any better than Michael.
So I won’t.
If we pick another book, I suggest that it should involve (1) sex, (2) violence, (3) religion, and (4) heroes.
Just to wash the taste of the last one out of our mouths.
The next one I’m nominating has 3 out of 4.
I never did get around to going to the library (apparently I have to physically register at the library in order to have access to the e-book lending catalog, LAME). So I haven’t read this yet. I’m sure it’ll be bad, which is why I ain’t dropping actual dollars on it.
It is unusual for a current novel to use written dialect
…Really? Maybe I read the wrong books, but I can’t think of many books, “current” or not, that DON’T render at least some characters’ speech in dialect. In fact, I’m having a hard time thinking of even one book in which everyone speaks Standard Written English, other than books that are “like 100 years old” [h/t Ezra Klein] and focus on characters who wouldn’t have spoken something other than [their era's] SWE anyway due to education and social status.
Stephen King’s books always have that one backwoods Maine character who speaks Maine dialect. Rowling has Hagrid. Amy Tan always has some older Chinese women in her books who speak California-style Chinglish. I haven’t read any Cormac McCarthy or Annie Proulx, but I’d be surprised if their “cowboy”/”rancher” characters didn’t speak some kind of dialect. And that isn’t even getting into the many fantasy and SF books I can think of in which characters from different fictional countries have different dialects.
The next one I’m nominating has 3 out of 4.
Geezer, you need to understand that (1) is non-negotiable. Cathy can’t stop me from rigging the poll.
Michael, the Mahabharata has all four of those!
(no, I’m not seriously suggesting that)
Geezer, you need to understand that (1) is non-negotiable. Cathy can’t stop me from rigging the poll.
Whew, I’m good then.
Yep, it has S E X… but no Religion, unless you count a couple of Calvinists getting offed.
It is unusual for a current novel to use written dialect
You really pissed off Mark Twain with that one.
unless you count a couple of Calvinists getting offed.
Bingo!!! Sounds like you have a winner in mind.
If we pick another book, I suggest that it should involve (1) sex, (2) violence, (3) religion, and (4) heroes. Just to wash the taste of the last one out of our mouths.
Ken Follett’s “World Without End” has all four.
It was tedious. I thought it was my imagination because internet has rendered my attention span to flea-like propor
Hey! I went out with Jenny tonight to a nifty little soul food restaurant. I never had fried okra before!
I had read it once before and that was enough so I refrained from commenting. I remember thinking I would like to try his filing system. It would improve the appearance of my office.
thank God. *tosses it after what’shis cop shows up in a bra or whatever
(a) The overall laudatory endorsement of implacably nonconformist and offensive behavior in opposition to The Establishment, whether Mrs. Reilly (the mother), or Officer Mancuso (the law), or his various employers (the corrupt capitalist economy), or Jones’ Negro rebellion against Lana and the Night of Joy (the racist white hierarachy), was politically correct, and remains so to this day.
Yes. OK.
I kept thinking I was missing something, especially when I read the plaudits on the back of the book. I read them several times, hoping there was a fucking clue in there.
Is that really it? This book got famous because academics think that happy-slapping ordinary folks is funny?
*sigh*
I guess I’ll never be an intellekshul
One more thing: he really pulled out the stops when he described Dorian and the gay party scene. He was pretty clearly working from a list of stereotypes and ticking them off as he wrote.
oh that helps even more.
I did 57 pages and STOPPED
this is the best book club ever!
LauraW is right on with the gay party scene.
The part of the book where I actually started enjoying it a little was when I first met Myrna Minkoff. She was so freaking horrible in every possible way that I wanted nothing more than for the author to inflict Ignatius on her, like some divine retribution.
I hereby recuse myself from future nominations.
This is not a nomination, but “Pride and Prejudice and Zombies” is freakin awesome.
I’m still in chapter 11, but I’m still waiting to be impressed.
Aside from Ignatius’ description of bureaucrats at the beginning of chapter nine, I have yet to laugh.
As for “cult” books, I much prefer something like “A Stranger in a Strange Land”, “A Scanner Darkly”, or “The Man in The High Castle” which has read like a different book every time I’ve read it.
Iggy had issues with “That Touch of Mink?”
The mind only boggles at what his reaction to “Pillow Talk” might have been if he had known then what we all know now about Rock Hudson.
Just starting reading through comments, responding as I go:
3. Pretentious in it’s show of semi-lite erudition (so you read some Boethius, big deal).
I think that is part of the joke. Ignatius OBVIOUSLY overestimates his intelligence and knowledge base.
It’s as if he bring up the same book over and over again because, in reality, it’s one of the few books he has read.
I never had fried okra before!
Ever had fried pickles? yum.
I have yet to have a fried twinkie, but that’s next on my bucket list.
I can’t say that I “liked” the book, but Ignatius certainly is a character I won’t soon forget. I think I saw him as more humorous as most – because he reminds me (as I’ve said a billion times) of my brother.
And, creating an unforgettable character is certainly one sign of “success.”
As for next books … just throwing it out there, since MJ brought it up last week or so – “American Psycho.”
I’m not invested in the idea (i’m going to read it anyway at some point) , just throwing it out there for variety.
1. Although this book is longer than the average novel, Walker Percy fought against it being severely edited. What do you think of his decision? If you were to expand or cut something, what would it be?
I’ve been thinking about this, and I guess I don’t believe that its true. 394 pages doesn’t strike me as being particularly long.
2. The book is elaborately plotted, but does it work? What do you find unbelievable or improbable?
I suppose so. Seeing as I’ve known some people like the various characters, I don’t consider it unbelievable or improbable. I just didn’t find it particularly amusing, either.
3. In the forty years since A Confederacy of Dunces was written our attitudes toward what constitutes pornography have changed. Given the same circumstances, would Lana Lee be arrested today for her bird show? Develop a scenario suitable for today’s more permissive times.
Bird show? She could have dogs, horses, and donkeys involved and not get people to bat an eye in certain places. I think you could offend more people with a mother giving birth to a second or third child than you could with porn. Rule 34 has pretty much made porn passe’.
4. It is unusual for a current novel to use written dialect. Would A Confederacy of Dunces be the same if characters like Burma and Santa spoke in standard English?
No. But the dialect thing doesn’t seem so unsual to me either. Either you create an accurate mental picture in the reader’s head, or you leave a little too much to the improve department in the threatre of the mind.
5. In the twenty-plus years since it’s publication A Confederacy of Dunces has become a cult novel. What does that mean to you? Give examples of other cult novels you may have read. Have you joined in slavish devotion to any of these works?
Same as when applied to other media, I suppose. A certain following that is so enamored with the story or charcters that they read it frequently, and perhaps have passages memorized for easy quotation to other devotee’s.
Other “cult” books? Good Omens, by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett, Catch-22 by Joseph Heller, Slaughterhouse 5, by Kurt Vonnegut.
6. In a letter dated March 5, 1965, Tool critiques his own novel writing that he “was certain that the Levys were the book’s worst flaw: and “that couple kept slipping from my grasp as I tried to manipulate them throughout the book” (Nevils and hardy, page 139). What did Toole mean? And do you agree? Are they the only characters who don’t come to life? Toole lauds other characters as being representative of New Orleans. Who do you think they might be?
I think he meant that they were the ones least “locked into” the chain of events that tied everyone else together. They could have just as easily never known about the letter, or been affected by the uprising at the plant. Or never have known about Iggy’s involvement in the scandalous doings at Night of Joy. And the events that he used to keep them involved could have just as easily gone a different direction.
That said, the only person I actually liked at the end of the book was Mr. Levy. His “reawakening” and plotting reminded me of the ending of the truly fantastic classic movie “Dodsworth”, where the main character, played by Walter Huston comes to the realization that he doesn’t want to be reconciled with his wife, played by Ruth Chatterton, because she is selfish, self-centered, vain, and greedy, and that it was the cause of her infidelity and his suffering in the first place, so he leaves her on the ocean liner and returns to the widow who he really loves, played by Mary Astor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwJYkGBWHi4
7. ANY OTHER FOCUS QUESTIONS from beloved IB Book Club readers is welcome. Just ask away in the comment thread and kind of announce it so that we all are aware and can respond.
Can I haz a cheezburger?
BiW said:
394 pages doesn’t strike me as being particularly long.
.
.
.
.
…is this some kind of test?
394 pages doesn’t strike me as being particularly long.
*checks hard drive capacity in anticipation of BiW’s next post*
I was gonna say Catch 22, and Slaughterhouse Five as representations of Cult Novels. I enjoyed both of their movie adaptations. I thought the casting was great in both of them.
I’ll have to check out that Dodsworth movie.
*makes mental note to not get Bulworth by mistake… or any other Warren Beatty movie.
Can I tell you guys now that two people I know, I’m not gonna mention aaaaany names, ok I will, rosetta and conservative belle both think this book is hysterical.
There. I said it.
I was gonna say Catch 22, and Slaughterhouse Five as representations of Cult Novels. I enjoyed both of their movie adaptations. I thought the casting was great in both of them.
Really? I hated Slaughterhouse Five…book and film. I thought “Mother Night” (also Vonnegut) were superior in both print and film.
I have yet to have a fried twinkie, but that’s next on my bucket list.
Go to the Texas State Fair. You can stay in the Persimmon Room at my house. The fair is famous for Deep Fried Anything. Twinkies are just the beginning.
ok I will, rosetta and conservative belle
My formerly high opinion of Conservative Belle just went way down.
Can we just pretend I only said Rosetta?
No.
damn it!
– from the Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám.
(The poem refers to Belshazzar’s feast as described in the Book of Daniel, and memorialized by an 11th century Persian poet.)
– from the Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám.
…which was improved upon by Jay Ward with Bullwinkle’s masterwork: The Ruby Yacht of Omar Khayyám.
Go to the Texas State Fair. You can stay in the Persimmon Room at my house. The fair is famous for Deep Fried Anything. Twinkies are just the beginning.
*nervously checks junk, breathes sigh of relief that something stayed off the deep-fried list*
I got the book because of Cathy. I read the first couple of chapters and didn’t find anything funny. I put it down after Ignatious masturbates while thinking of his dog. I’m not really seeing any reasons here to pick it back up again.
My Kindle says I was 40% done. I said I was 100% done. On vacation I decided to read another classic which is much, much better; Ender’s Game.