Hey Tea Party Folk!! August 10, 2011
Posted by geoff in News.trackback
I never did any of the Tea Party gigs, ‘cuz that’s not my thing. So I don’t have any first-hand experience to refute the comments made by one of my friends this morning:
…any attempt to rationalize the Tea Party as some sort of grass roots reaction to elites is absurd. The Koch brothers are pumping shitloads of money into this effort.http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer
It’s an anti-Obama distraction. And it’s not, not, not a conservative movement. It’s an extremely activist fanatical right-wing movement. There a huge difference between the two.
Obviously he’s been exposed to a lot of negative propaganda. I was hoping that, in a civil and informed way, Tea Party regulars could give me their reactions explaining why his characterization is untrue.
Thanks.
I, of course, already responded to him telling that based on the people I know, he’s completely off-base. But I was thinking that first-hand observations would be more authoritative.
I heard the Koch’s had been putting money into some Tea Party organization(s). I also heard that the left were going to do their best to ‘expose’ the Koch corruption. Of course! This is what Tea Party critics do. Classic Alinsky.
Geoff, does your friend assume that because some wealthy individuals put money into an non-profit organization that the organization starts to ‘take orders’ from these wealthy folks?
Does he hold all political organizations and donors to the same standard? Has he investigated the amount of money Soros or others have put into opposition of conservatives or constitutional government? I’m not aware that this kind of ‘corruption’ is or could easily happen in Tea Parties. I don’t know the details concerning the Kochs. I do know we in the Dallas Metroplex follow rules and take our code of conduct seriously. It’s published and communicated at this link under “code of conduct.”
http://dallasteaparty.org/pages/TeaPartyFAQ/
Here in the Dallas Ft. Worth area, we have HUNDREDS of Tea Party organizations. Some of us partner with each other on events or activities, but we are not told what to do and we do not take orders from any individual. Many of the Tea Party groups do not even totally agree on what the priorities are,m what are principles are, and what we all are planning to do. Our groups are all autonomous and pretty much without sole leaders. We have coordinators and folks in leadership teams, but I know of no one person in charge or in control of any of our groups or activities.
In my community tea party, we have the following 5 basic principles/directives:
1) Limit government & reclaim right to make our own decisions as individuals
2) Fight for fiscal responsibility in government (and encourage it in our own homes)
3) Hold our representatives accountable to us
4) Restore the rule of law (constitutional)
5) Advocate for a secure and sovereign nation (government’s primary responsibility — protecting us — our life, liberty and OUR wealth)
If the Kochs and any other person want to put contributions into our coffers because they happen to agree with our principles, that’s great!. Given our organizations are 501 (c)(3) or (c)(4) type organizations, and I don’t know all the specifics about them yet, the ability for the Koch brothers or any individual to TELL us HOW to use their contributions totally goes against no-profit guidelines. If someone tells the organization how to spend the dollars, it just might not be a legitimate contribution anymore to qualify as a non-profit.
I’m in the middle of stuff here at home and won’t spend time looking at the specific criticism in the articles of the so-called Tea Party organizations or the Kochs’ involvement in them. But what would be essential for criticism to ‘stick’ is showing how what the Kochs or Tea Party organizations DID is in violation of ethics or laws. It’s simply too easy to use phrases like “anti-Obama distraction” or an “extremely activist fanatical right-wing movement.”
*Laughing and rolling eyes*
What laws are violated by being an “anti-Obama distraction?” Maybe your friend could try to picture our distractions as efforts to fight the unconstitutional power grabs this present government is clearly taking AND that it is us who are saving our country! *giggle* We aren’t gonna hold our breath waiting for your friend to pat us on the back or say thanks…
What makes being a “right-wing-extremist” illegal? Labels are easy. Proving that someone DID something illegal is totally another dealio. Wow. Doesn’t our constitution speak clearly about this sort of thing? My little pocket copy of the Constitution has sumpin on that… yea.
OoooooH! Yeah, what awful peeps we are! *yawns* Hey. Tell me something new, fella!
It’s kind of pathetic to hear more of this kind of crap floating around. It just looks so obvious that those who throw stones are not interested in facts or ethics. “How did a Tea Party or the Kochs violate any laws or use unethical tactics to influence?”
*hears crickets*
Now let me turn the tables on our opposition for a moment. How is Obama, his Czars, his staff, the Democrats, the RINOs, and the media, and other liberal organizations threatening the liberties of the taxpaying LEGAL citizens of this great nation?
Ahhhh! Lemme count the ways!
*smiles*
Well, if there is money coming in, I haven’t seen a dime.
But then I only took the leap when Juan McCain thought it was good policy to start referring to people who want to stop enslaving future generations to insane government vote buying as “Hobbits” and telling them to shut up because the old guys like him know better.
How I wish that was true! I have direct contact with over 20 Tea Party organizations and not one of them is getting any sort of ‘outside money’ (with the possible exception of the Dallas Tea Party; but if they do, it’s not much).
Me, I’m probably out $5k of personal money doing this so far; most everybody I know is the same way. If youy see the Koch brothers, have them give us a call.
BTW: during the healthcare rallies, we specialized in going up against MoveOn.org. Many of the other side were shocked to find none of our organizers were paid; their leaders all were in some fashion.. But I guess actual Soros money is OK, where non-existent Koch money is not.
Mike O. Hugs, buddy.
I know you put your heart and soul into this. I’ve seen you at many events and know your heart and intellect is focused for good.
I just hope my friend Geoff (who happens to be a main-page blog-buddy at Ace of Spades HQ and is famous for his charts, especially the ones on unemployment which were birthed right here at IB) is able to get some of this great information back to his liberal friend. We might just be able to convince a few of them… if they are willing to use fact and logic.
Thanks for the Hobbit comment, BiW. Hugs.
We might just be able to convince a few of them… if they are willing to use fact and logic.
This is the same fellow who recently said, “I have to confess, I cast a racist vote for Obama. And I’ll never vote for him again.”
So there’s hope.
So there’s hope
That’s quite a confession on his part, Geoff.
Sounds like some good news.
You might suggest to your friend that he make a concerted effort to read Mark Levin’s book “Liberty and Tyranny” and then get back to you with questions afterward.
The Tea Party turned me into a newt.
…
I got better.
I’ve been to a couple of rallies. It was the first time I’ve actually attended any kind of political rally of any type. I was sick of Bush’s economic policies and could see things going from bad to worse when Obama came into office. Most of the people I’ve met seemed to be middle class, small business owners that are afraid they’ll get squeezed out supporting all the welfare. Some of them seem to be folks that are just disgusted by the stupid shit we waste our taxes dollars on (that’s the sub group I belong with). And there seems to be a few people that are actively trying to Moby the rallies by spouting obviously racist and ignorant behavior.
As far as financing goes. I took two hours off from work without pay to attend each rally. I don’t know how you guys are doing, but that’s an actual sacrifice for me and I met a lot of other people doing the same thing. Either one of those two hour periods would almost pay for a week’s worth of gas for me.
So Dave, you’re now making a wry joke by comparing the Tea Party to witches. The minions of Satan.
As opposed to a lynch mob.
And you’re different from Mark — how?
Thanks DBS
Good to hear from you.
>> And you’re different from Mark — how?
I’m funny.
I’m funny.
Usually, but not that time. Mark was funnier than you. His joke included an arcane historical reference, at least, and it was merely intended as a gibe directed at me personally, not the denigration of a political viewpoint.
Your “joke” lacked an iota of wit, and reeked of an arrogant, dismissive, flippant and ignorant attitude towards thousands of people who are desperately trying to save our country from ruin. It did not go over well here.
It was worse coming from a conservative. You have no excuse for that kind of humorless bad taste.
His joke included an arcane historical reference
*rolls eyes*
The social currency of insecure Liberal Arts majors.
Oh Laura, I’m not saying Mark made a good joke. But at least it had something other than being snide about patriots.
Look, I’ve made more stupid jokes that fell flat than I care to remember.
Just sayin’, let’s be careful about getting real judgmental about that. We all tend to type faster than we think.
WTF?
Noted Tea Party critic…
I don’t trust this guy either
Point taken, Dave. There’s a meme going on that we were not aware of.
So,
TEA PARTY GUILTY OF THE OXBOW LYNCHINGS!!!
BWAAAAHAHAHAHA!
Context is a helpful thing. Here are three other conservatives, also friends, also supporters of the Tea Party who a) have a sense of humor, b) “get” self-deprecation, and c) presume good intent from their friends.
Mark is none of those, and has a history of walking into the living room and taking a shit on the carpet.
>> and it was merely intended as a gibe directed at me personally, not the denigration of a political viewpoint.
And if all this fails, fallback is Plan DinT: immediate cut-off of all funding for medicaid, food stamps, cell phones, etc. And use the funds to erect giant walls around trailer parks and blighted urban areas (Kurt Russell in charge of this). Because a hungry mob may be an angry mob, but think about a hungry mob that can’t even order takeout.
Aimed at you. Except it’s not.
Anyway, sorry about the newt joke. Mostly that for some reason it was taken as actual TP criticism and not a joke. So when I say “sorry”, I mean sorry for you.
OK, Dave, I accept your heartfelt apology.
Hah! Bout as much as I accept your well-intentioned lecture and moral equivalence, but that’s what we got right now, ain’t it?
It’ll have to do. I’ll presume good intent.
Pie for everybody!
I’ll presume good intent.
Safe bet. I’m Lutheran.
look, I’ve been looking for a good-paying gig for the better part of 3 years and, considering the fact that I agree 110% with Cathy’s group’s principles, if it were possible to get paid being a member of the Tea Party, I think my personal financial situation would be quite different that it currently is.
What’s really funny is that geoff’s friend, like so many on the left, seem completely flummoxed by the idea that that someone would work so hard for something they believe in without getting reimbursed for it, and even going so far as to paying for the right to fight for the future of this country.
Speaks volumes regarding the difference between the left and the right, don’t it?
look, I’ve been looking for a good-paying gig for the better part of 3 years
I thought you were Lauraw’s Pool Boy.
I thought you were Lauraw’s Pool Boy.
That’s not a paying gig. I do that for free.
(Don’t tell her this, but honestly, if she asked, I would pay her if I had to.)
If any of you hear from the Koch brothers, please tell them I’m still waiting on my check.
Thanks in advance, fellow bought-and-paid-for terrorist hobbit.
Geoff, the Tea Party movement is mostly made up of passionate, conservative, patriotic individuals who donate their time to the effort. Some large Tea Party Groups like Freedomworks, and Americans for Prosperity have some big donors along with small donors who support the work they’re doing. I understand Koch donates to AFP. Like Kathy already said —this is a problem, why?
Soros practically runs the Dem party. And public union spend public $$$ to fund Dem candidates Your friend doesn’t have a problem with that pernicious situation , but has a problem with libertarian businessmen helping out Republicans?
I don’t get the thinking,
NiceDeb,
What sort of role would you say that Americans for Prosperity has in influencing the other groups? Is it fair to say that the Tea Party is not a grass roots movement due to the Koch-funded AFP involvement?
Michael, you’re off base here. Sure, the reference to The Ox-Bow Incident was all historical & shit….but Dave dropped a Monty Python line, and did it in perfect context to the larger issue.
So game, set & match to the pie lover.
I mean, the only way he could have bolstered his Man Cred any more would be to tell a story about how his old college roommate Mitch Cumstein was kicked out of school in his last semester for night putting. Just putting at night. With the 16-year old daughter of the dean.
Or he could have done the elaborate hand gestures of Curly from the Three Stooges, but it’s hard to carry that off successfully in a non-visual medium.
I totally missed the Monty Python reference.
Geoff I emailed you, and copied Deb, something I recently got that might help clarify your questions about AFP and the Tea Party.
Thanks, Cathy. So as I understand it, AFP interacts w/Tea Party groups by providing info, training, and speakers, but does not directly (or indirectly) fund the groups? Is that a fair summary?
Beyond Tea Party interaction, what other activities does AFP usually pursue (i.e., where does it spend its money)?
AFP and Freedomworks stem from the group, “Citizens for a Sound Economy” which split into the 2 separate groups in 2004. AFP is heavily funded by Koch Industries. Freedomworks has had big donors but are mostly funded by individual donations.
Although both groups have been around awhile, their (smaller gov, tea partyish) messages have stayed the same.
No, it’s not fair to say the tea party as a whole is not grass roots because two groups that precede the tea party receive large donations.
I’m sure you remember how the tea party spontaneously sprung up in Feb of 2009. I can tell you as someone that was going to them at the very beginning – there was no one “organizing us”, or bussing us to locations. The word spread through email lists, and websites. You may remember Michelle Malkin and Instapundit were indispensible at the very beginning in getting the word out. I tried to do my part at Nice Deb. It was individuals – folks who had never protested anything in their lives – mostly conservative women, who were behind the movement at the beginning.
We were looking at what the Dems were getting ready to do to the country (we’re seeing the dividends, now) and saying – “not happening as long as we have breath in our lungs.”
Larger groups like AFP and Freedomworks jumped in at some point in ’09 to help with resources and organizing, and spreading the word.
They basically took over where MM and insty left off on that score.
Well, we’ve put up quite a fight, and have been called every name in the book, but we have been somewhat effective at getting fiscal conservatives elected, and have moved the dial on the spending debate.
A good resource, by the way, if you haven’t yet heard about it is the Freedomconnector.
http://connect.freedomworks.org/node/157476
Freedomworks provides the resource, but doesn’t have any control over how people use it.
It helps conservative activists in the same area find each other and organize. You will be astounded by the possibilities.
No, it’s not fair to say the tea party as a whole is not grass roots because two groups that precede the tea party receive large donations.
Well, I’m trying to get some serious ammo here, so I’m trying to nail down exactly how much influence & support the eeeevil Koch brothers do or don’t have on the tea parties. The accusation is that the grass roots origins of the Tea Parties no longer apply – they’ve been co-opted by Koch money into pushing Koch-friendly agendas.
So I’m looking for where the boundaries between the groups are, and understanding exactly how Koch money flows among the organizations.
Glad we are back on topic here, Geoff and Deb.
Good stuff, Deb. Thanks. Just want to add some ‘skin’ in this discussion.
My involvement in the Tea Party was inspired by our NiceDeb here. Deb was promoting the upcoming “Tax Day Tea Party” event 2 1/2 years ago. I had not been to any events before and did not listen to conservative talk radio, which here in the Dallas Ft. Worth area, had been promoting the big “Tax Day Tea Party” at Dallas City Hall on April 15th, 2009. So when Deb shared what was going to happen, I got the idea for some fun hand made posters and showed up with a neighbor, my posters, wearing my silly cowboy hat, and taking pics with my camera. I was blown away that over 5,000 of us showed up. I blogged about it here at IB, and it got some traction at Ace, Pajamas Media, and a few other places. And some folks even saw pics of me on Fox TV (I never saw them). But that’s how I got my name on the email list.
Shortly after that Tax Day Tea Party I volunteered to be my neighborhood’s coordinator. My role has grown since then so that now I’m on several leadership-coordinator teams for Dallas County, the DFW Metroplex, my own community that spans two city governments, and also around the state.
What is fun now at meetings I attend, is listening to stories of other leaders… so similar to mine… been a conservative all our lives but not that much into Republican politics. In fact, many of our present leaders have never been Republicans.
Also, a colleague and friend of mine that I’ve gotten to know this past year worked for Americans For Prosperity out of their Austin offices on issues long before the Tea Party sprouted and grew to what it is today. She now works more specifically on the challenges we face here in Texas with ILLEGAL immigration.
There is a good book that is chock full of personal stories of Grassroots leaders, called “Tea Party – The Awakening.” Brent Morehouse sent me a free copy because I’m in leadership, but you can get a copy for yourself via…
http://www.newpatriotpublishing.com.
The accusation is that the grass roots origins of the Tea Parties no longer apply – they’ve been co-opted by Koch money into pushing Koch-friendly agendas.
So I’m looking for where the boundaries between the groups are, and understanding exactly how Koch money flows among the organizations.
Good question. I’ve received no Koch money. Most of us leaders handle our own fundraising at our local level and simply pay for our own operating costs out of our pockets. We are very careful about how we plan our events and shop around for what we can do with very little or can get free. I’ve gotten some folks willing to help sponsor a few events and sweet talked my way into a great luxurious venue for one gathering we had awhile back. We also charge folks fees to attend training or pass the hat at speaking events and rallies to help defer our costs.
I personally know of a few small business folks who are so passionate about the Tea Party groups in our area they are willing to print up stuff for us for next to nothing through their own personal small businesses. We try to not take advantage of these great people. And we operate more like a church rummage sale or bake sale than some big money fund raising endeavor. Um. That’s the truth!
The wonderful reality is that TRUE GRASSROOTS is about walking neighborhoods and talking with people who identify us as their friend or neighbor face to face. The costs of this kind of effective communication are actually pretty cheap.
Geoff, read Mike O’s comment #4 above. Mike was in my home last Saturday evening. We’ve talked to hundreds of leaders and what Mike said is so similar to what we hear from others. We are giggling, because we don’t see any money from the Kochs.
I’m not sure what good it will do to research the true involvement of Koch Industries with the Tea Party movement. To me, it’s a little like doing a detailed structural analysis of the WTC collapse for a 911 Truther: It’s purely pearls before swine.
Spam filter help? Good stuff in there.
AFP is the only tea party group that I know of that receives Koch money. Like Freedomworks, it has local tea party affiliates, but I have no idea how the money flows between the host organization and its affiliates. My guess is, not much. I think most of their money goes towards resources, political ad buys, tea-party bus tours, hosting right wing conferences.
You can see more of their activities and programs at Wikipedia:
For instance,
During the 2010 election cycle, Americans for Prosperity claims to have spent $40 million dollars on rallies, phone banks, and canvassing, mostly for Republican candidates.[1] Beneficiaries included Morgan Griffith (R-VA), Cory Gardner (R-CO) and Adam Kinzinger (R-IL). Of the six Republican members who were elected to the United States Senate for the first time, Americans for Prosperity supported five of their campaigns.[1] Of twelve Republicans newly appointed to the House Energy and Commerce Committee, nine signed a pledge distributed by Americans for Prosperity to oppose greenhouse gas regulation.[1].
Most tea party groups have nothing to do with the Koch’s – (not that there’s anything wrong with them). They just depend mostly on individual donations, and operate on a shoestring budget.
I think that part of the success of the Tea Party as a whole is the LACK of corporate funding. Big salaries for positions like this never seem to produce results, and they might even reward mediocrity. Political campaign hacks are paid big bucks, and look at the results we get: The same old warmed over shit sandwich every time. I’ll take passion every time.
Off topic but this is just full of awesomeness right here: Hero Gets His Gun Back.
Mitchell @ #42, good stuff but either I don’t know how to approve it or I don’t have teh power.
I haven’t seen one blessed check from the Koch Brothers, “Big Oil,” or Wall Street ?? Am I alone ?
I’ve been to four TEA party meets.
Two in Seal Beach, two in Orange County.
At the two in Seal Beach many of the people were registered Democrats.
One of these helped me put my Gadsen flag on a wooden post so it could be flown instead of carried.
At each one all of the signs were home made.
No major speakers were at any of them.
Just us regular folk.
We get email notification from each group I signed up at.
Seems pretty grass roots to me.
Cathy’s (Tea Party) theme song!
*does happy dance to the music*
There are so many great ‘social cause’ songs from that era. It is fun to repurpose them for our cause. This should be a minor agenda item.
Mainly, because it’s good inspirational music that calls back to the right generations, but also, it’s a moral imperative now that the Left has become the Institution.
Fuck their tyranny. Let them hear their own words spat back in their own faces.
AIN’T NO STOPPING US NOW…WE’RE ON THE MOVE
So correct, Laura, that the left has become the institution. We are the rebels now, and they don’t like it one bit. HA!
The Man is trying to keep us down.
I’m so happy that the elites believe this is a top down conspiracy. It will make their destruction in November 2012 that much sweeter. And yes, I attended a tea party rally in early 2009, and no, didn’t get any Koch money. The TEA party was originally about outrage over TARP..which was opposed about 100 to 1…but passed anyway.