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Pig Races Staged Next To Texas Mosque Property December 31, 2006

Posted by Michael in Crime, Terrorist Hemorrhoids.

KATY, Texas (AP) — A man unhappy with an Islamic association’s plans to build a mosque next to his property has staged pig races as a protest during afternoon prayers. Craig Baker, 46, sold merchandise and grilled sausages Friday for about 100 people who showed up in heavy rain. He insisted he wasn’t trying to offend anyone with the pigs, which are forbidden from the Muslim diet.

My ass. You weren’t trying to be offensive? Craig, most Texans have too much class to attempt such an obvious lie.

Too bad the Muslims weren’t actually offended.

Muslims don’t hate pigs, they just don’t eat them, said engineer Kamel Fotouh, president of the 500-member Katy Islamic Association in this Houston suburb.

“I don’t care if he races, roasts or slaughters pigs,” said Yousef Allam, a spokesman for the group.

So, why was Craig pissed off?

The dispute began when the association asked Baker to remove his cattle from its newly bought land. The association plans to build a mosque, community center, athletic facilities and a school.

Huh. Craig was grazing his cattle on someone else’s land, for free, without permission. That’s called criminal trespass. Sounds like the Muslims were pretty polite about it.

There must be something more to this.

Baker agreed to move his cattle but thought the Muslims also wanted him off the land his family has lived on for more than 100 years.

Whoa!!! Those frickin’ jihadi bastards are trying to kick a native born Texan off his land. Screw those ragheads!!!

Earlier this month, Baker conceded that the Muslims probably aren’t after his land, but he said he had to go through with the pig races because “I would be like a total idiot if I didn’t. I’d be the laughingstock now because I’ve gone too far.”

All the same, Baker plans to continue the weekly pig races until interest dwindles.

Oops. Just a misunderstanding.

Erm, Craig, you did go to far, you are a total idiot, and you are making it worse by continuing the pig races.

At least the Katy Islamic Association is trying to be gracious.

The association never meant to imply it wanted Baker to move, Allam said.

“If we somehow communicated that to him, then we apologize,” he said.

I’m highly confident, Allam, that you did not actually imply that. Craig is just a dumbfuck.

Resident Susan Canavespe said the pig racing wasn’t mean-spirited — “It’s just Texas-spirited.”

No, Susan, I’ve spent many years in Texas, and that is not “Texas-spirited.” That’s just Craig and you and a bunch of other redneck assholes embarrassing a state that is otherwise renowned for being hospitable and fair-minded.

You should be ashamed. Texas does not need dipshits like you telling people what is “Texas-spirited.”

Mosque plans trigger neighbor’s pig races


1. Bart - December 31, 2006

We’ll all look back on this someday and laugh. Then we will cry.

Mosques are notorious for raising money for terrorist groups such as Hamas and Hezboola. Not to mention preaching hate against non-Muslims.

2. Michael - December 31, 2006

Bart, there is no evidence that funding terrorists is a normal objective of American mosques. There’s plenty of evidence that American-Irish Catholics were complicit in funding IRA terrorism. So, how many Catholic churches should we have shut down as a result?

3. Bart - December 31, 2006

They weren’t doing it in the church, Michael. I’m not going to stick up for the IRA, but their dispute was more political than religious.

To me, mosques are a gathering place for people who celebrate blowing up people at bus stops and weddings, and who condone the murder of a daughter for breaking a Muslim law, all in the name of Allah.

Yes, I understand that most Muslims are not actively participating in such horrific events. But if you asked if they thought it was “right” to kill a daughter who has shamed the family by having sex outside of marriage, or asked them if control of Jerusalem was worth killing for, most of them would say yes. Ask a ex-Muslim what could happen to him/her if Muslims found out s/he converted to Christianity.

While that jerk in Texas is roasting pigs and being inhospitable, his neighbors in the mosque will be praising Allah for this week’s martyrs in Palestine. Which do you think is worse?

In this case, I’m not really put off by Craig Baker’s bad manners. I’ll trust Muslims and welcome mosques in the neighborhood when more of them stand up and offer sincere and serious condemnation of the truly barbaric acts perpetrated by other Muslims. As of yet, their silence tells me all I need to know.

4. geoff - December 31, 2006

The original story was that the Muslims had suggested that he move out:

According to Baker on Sept. 29, only one week after KIA purchased the property, two founding members of KIA visited Baker at his company and in a polite way said they felt like their mosque and his marble company did not go together and he should consider relocating his business and family.

That was supposedly the genesis of the pig racing schtick. The Baker family has been in Katy for over a hundred years, by the way. But it looks like there’s a discrepancy between the original reporting and the latest story.

Unfortunately I don’t trust CNN to get it right.

5. Michael - December 31, 2006

Guys, we need to distinguish between the conduct of mosques in Pakistan and the conduct of mosgues in the U.S.

Let’s assume, as Geoff says, that the KIA suggested to Baker, politely, that he should move out so that they could buy some adjacent property. What’s wrong with that?

They want room for a mosque, community center, school, and athletic fields. Pretty much what German Lutherans were looking for when they moved here.

What’s wrong with that?

6. lauraw - December 31, 2006

That story changed quite a bit.

7. BrewFan - December 31, 2006

Michael, are you suggesting that most if not all mosques in this country haven’t raised and sent money to Hamas and or Fatah? I would also like to know of just one mosque that has condemned the actions of those two organizations. I believe the Roman Catholic church went on record many times condemning the IRA.

8. BrewFan - December 31, 2006

Also, are you suggesting that German Lutherans aren’t/weren’t terrorists? You can’t be that naive, can you?

9. kevlarchick - December 31, 2006

Brew you gave up church for New Year’s didn’t you?

10. cranky - December 31, 2006

Michael wrote: “Let’s assume, as Geoff says, that the KIA suggested to Baker, politely, that he should move out so that they could buy some adjacent property. What’s wrong with that?”

If they wanted the property they should have made an offer to purchase rather than a suggestion to move. The suggestion sounds like a threat.

As an American, who happens to be Catholic and of Irish decent (I’m not the hyphenating sort) I have always hated the IRA’s terrorist tactics. To suggest that Sunday Mass was used to collect funds for the IRA is both wrong and foolish.

Here’s what I believe about Muslims: when they say they want to kill infidels and establish Islam as the sole religion and political system I believe them. To not believe them would mean that I thought they were liars. I think they mean exactly what they say.

11. BrewFan - December 31, 2006

Brew you gave up church for New Year’s didn’t you?

Nah. Just pulling Michael’s chain a little bit. 🙂

12. Dave in Texas - December 31, 2006

Too many changes in the story for me to feel like commenting on it.

13. genghis - December 31, 2006


If you’re travelling up to Seattle next week for the game I should mention that the strip clubs here don’t serve alcohol and the dancers aren’t fully nekkid’. For this you’ll need to schedule a side trip down to Portland. About 3 hours each way by car.

Always helpful I am.

14. Dave in Texas - December 31, 2006

the strip clubs here don’t serve alcohol and the dancers aren’t fully nekkid

The communists have completely taken over the state.

That’s just not right.

15. Tracy - March 1, 2007

First off, the story on which you initially commented is not quite accurate. Craig isn’t using the property without permission. Craig has leased the property from the original owner, and, as of the incident in question, still had about 6 months remaining.

Representatives of KIA did meet with Craig and suggest that he and his family relocate. This, whether polite or note, I find offensive.

And to address the comments pointing out the difference between Pakistani and American mosques; look up the stories (not on CNN) about the Muslim who ran down several people with his SUV, the Canadian Muslim who shot several college students, and the Muslim in Utah involved in the mall shooting. You’ll find statements that they either left the mosque immediately before, or attended the mosque immediately following their crime. Interesting connection, don’t you think?

16. skinbad - March 1, 2007

I’ve watched the news pretty closely on the Utah shooting and have seen nothing similar to what you’re saying. Source?

17. Paligal - March 2, 2007

My local mosque has condemnded actions by Muslim terrorists. So has CAIR, the Council of American-Islamic Relations. So have countless individual mosques across the country. Many Friday afternoon sermons have been given decrying the hijacking of our religion by extremists — including my father, who is an imam.

People born into Christian families who attend church commit crimes, murders, serial killings and other atrocities everyday. I don’t think every Christian is out to get me, though. Take a step back and and start considering being logical. There are more than 6 million Muslims in the United States. And 99 percent of us just live a normal, 9-5, daily grind kinda life. And the people who know us love us. If you’ve never met an American-Muslim, don’t generalize about us. We’re just like you — minus the ignorance and blind hatred of some.

18. Paligal - March 2, 2007

*by my father* that is.

19. lauraw - March 2, 2007

Several top members of CAIR have been convicted of providing material aid to terrorist organizations.

Still; many terror cell members have been caught and detained because of tips from the American Muslim community.
And that was a good thing they did.

But it is absurd to elevate yourself above ordinary Americans, or to claim Muslims are not capable of intolerance and blind hatred.

I know several Syrian and Lebanese families, and one Egyptian;
need I say that you don’t mention the Jews around these people?

20. composmentis - March 2, 2007

Paligal, I appreciate your post. I have many mixed feelings about it. One thing I know for certain is that fanaticism/extremism when applied to most things usually does not beget positive results.

The question I have for you and those in your mosque is this: What is the goal of Islam?

21. Dave in Texas - March 2, 2007

Terrorism = crime?


22. composmentis - March 2, 2007


Will you meet me in the middle?
Will you meet me in the air?
Will you love me just a little?
Just enough to show you CAIR?

23. Paligal - March 2, 2007

Sure Muslims are capable of intolerance and blind hatred. So is any person of any race, ethnicity or religion in the entire world. I’m not a fan of generalization. And I don’t at all mean to imply I’m better than anyone else. I simply abhor racists and bigots. I’ve dealt with my own parents being racist in some forms and I always yell at them about it. As a first-generation American, I think the key to understanding is education. And that doesn’t mean going to college. It means trying to understand cultures or religions that are different than ours, otherwise it diminishes the value of our own belief — if you simply follow the ONLY thing you know, BECAUSE its the only thing you know, what good is that?

Islam literally translates to “peace.” That is the goal … inner peace, interpersonal peace, religious peace. The name of Islam has been screwed up because of the actions of terrorists — who by the way, are going totally AGAINST Islam with their actions. God says in the Quran that to kill an innocent person is as if to have killed all of humanity.

I apologize on behalf of any Muslims who are anti-semitics (I have Jewish friends, former teachers and professors I was close to). And for people who do horrible acts in the name of “Islam.” Only God can bring them to justice in the end for their actions. I’m certainly not cheering those creeps on.

24. lauraw - March 2, 2007

I thought it translated to ‘submission.’

Its good to hear from you. I think you are probably more Americanized and less cloistered than some other Muslims in this country.

25. lauraw - March 2, 2007

And you need not apologize for others.

26. Dave in Texas - March 2, 2007

True… you sound like a pretty reasonable decent chap to me. Who as lauraw points out, has assimilated.

27. Lipstick - March 2, 2007

God says in the Quran that to kill an innocent person is as if to have killed all of humanity.

But doesn’t that really mean that to kill a fellow Muslim is wrong, but killing the “unbelievers” is okay?

28. lauraw - March 2, 2007

Yeah, if you read the 9th Sura, you really have to be Americanized -i.e. Reformed- to think that Islam is inherently peaceful.

29. BrewFan - March 2, 2007

Words don’t mean anything. You can say something is peaceful and tolerant all day long but what really matters is the actions. If Islam is so peaceful please explain why so many Muslims are slaughtering each other in Iraq? And don’t tell me these deeds are being done only by the ‘terrorists’. You have Sunnis murdering Shiite in the name of Islam and you have Shiite murdering Sunnis in the name of Islam. If Islam is so peaceful why is your average Muslim so anxious to escape the theocracy they currently live in to emigrate to the West?

30. skinbad - March 2, 2007

*humming “Throw Another Log on the Fire”*

What happens when a fly lands in a cup of coffee

*The Englishman* – throws the cup away and walks away.

*The American* – takes out the fly and drinks the coffee.

*The Chinese* – eats the fly and throws away the coffee.

*The Japanese* – drinks the coffee with the fly, since the fly is provided at no extra charge.

*The Israeli* – sells the coffee to the American, the fly to the Chinese,
and buys himself a new cup of coffee.

*The Palestinian* – blames the Israeli for the violent act of putting the
fly in his coffee, asks the UN for aid, takes a loan from the European Union to buy a new cup of coffee, uses the money to purchase explosives, straps the explosives on, and then goes to blow up the coffee house where the Englishman, the American, the Chinese, the Japanese are all trying to explain to the Israeli that he is too aggressive…

31. Retired Geezer - March 2, 2007

If Islam is so peaceful why is your average Muslim so anxious to escape the theocracy they currently live in to emigrate to the West?

He shoots… he SCORES!

Oh yeah, Skinbad gets mad props for that joke. Never heard it before but it’s worth repeating.

32. composmentis - March 2, 2007

Good one skinny. Reminds me of one o’ me favorite jokes.

You have an Englishman, a Scottsman, and an Irishman sitting in a pub. Each is given a pint of ale but there’s a fly in each glass.

The Englishman wrinkles up his nose in disgust and pushes the entire glass away.

The Scottsman shrugs his shoulders, picks the fly out and drinks the ale.

The Irishman gets red in the face, picks the fly out of the ale, shakes it violently and yells, “Spit it out wee bastard! Spit it all out!”

33. Paligal - March 2, 2007

Hehe, thats the first time I’ve been called a “chap.” I’m a 23-year-old girl 🙂 Thank you for your kindness, though!

As for the last question posed … if anyone has the answer to that, feel free to speak up. Being Muslim doesn’t mean I can explain what’s being done half a world away by people I don’t know. I can IMAGINE though that anyone living there in the middle of a war having their family and neighbors killed right and left is liable to do things that are out of their mind, including joining in the melee. Pray for them, and for peace, if you can.

34. Retired Geezer - March 2, 2007

Something triggered the memory of a song.

It’s My Gift to all the IB Babes and Paligal.

As one of the Showgirls once told me… “That’s Humpin’ Music”.

35. composmentis - March 2, 2007

Yeah Geez, that song’s like something right out of a movie soundtrack, with people in the scene gettin’ busy.

36. Lipstick - March 2, 2007

Humpin’ music indeed.

Thanks RG.

37. juno4444 - March 2, 2007

You have to understand that these wars are not about RELIGION, they are about POLITICS. Now the IRA in Ireland is really not a Catholic/Protestant movement, it’s more about power and control. In India there are Jews and Muslims that live quite peacefully together. And Muslims and Hindus in the south of India live peacefully together at well. But move up north and it’s a whole different story…why? It’s strife over land, money and governmental control. These are similar issues that are affecting Jews and Muslims in Palestine and Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq. It saddens me that people are so quick to generalize, so quick to say that all of these wars are in the name of Islam. If you really think this, if you really think that these wars have been dictated by the tenets of Islam, at least be accurate in your thinking. Read the Quran and see for yourself what the religion says about war. I suspect though, for everyone that calls Muslims “towelheads” and “terrorists” their last priority is englightening themselves on the facets of the religion. Ignorance and racism are sadly, two sides of the same coin.

38. Dave in Texas - March 2, 2007

Hehe, thats the first time I’ve been called a “chap.” I’m a 23-year-old girl Thank you for your kindness, though!

My bad. Everybody is young to me.

cept Geezer.

39. skinbad - March 2, 2007

The incitement and the recruiting is in the name of Allah. It probably is about politics and power to the sons of bitches pulling the strings. But they use religous zealotry and the promise of rewards in heaven to fuel these abominations with mostly young men. Wars in the name of Islam? It depends which tenets of Islam are being preached by which Imams doesn’t it? It depends who Muslims are willing to rally behind. It depends what they teach their children about the humanity of those of other religions. It depends if they are willing to look at their own societies and the ills within them or if they let their anger be diverted to “The West” ; “The Great Satan” ; “The Jews,” etc. It saddens me that people are so quick to generalize as well.

40. BrewFan - March 2, 2007

Like I said earlier, just so many words. If you want some credibility juno4444 and paligal don’t tell me I have to be tolerant, give me a reason to be tolerant by taking back your religion from those who you claim have hijacked it. Turn your anger to them, not me. While you’re worried about what I think of your religion it is being further coopted by the evil doers. The people responsible for the Bali bombings are already getting out of prison. This is because main-stream Islam turns a blind eye to the murder of ‘infidels’.

41. Retired Geezer - March 2, 2007

Everybody is young to me.

cept Geezer.

I’m like a tiny Buddah, covered in gray hair.

42. Paligal - March 3, 2007

I hope that was an Anchorman reference. Ron Burgundy is the best (well, and Baxter).

brew – I don’t base my credibility on your opinion.

43. BrewFan - March 3, 2007

brew – I don’t base my credibility on your opinion.

I understand that you’re just a ‘talker’ and not a ‘doer’. You’ve got talking points and having the opportunity to share them makes you feel good. You’ve made rationalization and moral relativism an artform:

Being Muslim doesn’t mean I can explain what’s being done half a world away by people I don’t know. I can IMAGINE though that anyone living there in the middle of a war having their family and neighbors killed right and left is liable to do things that are out of their mind, including joining in the melee.

Here’s a little food for thought: “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Edmund Burke)

So, don’t worry about my opinion. Just keep talking and continue to defend the indefensible. Accuse people who have legitimate concerns about the ‘peacefulness’ of Islam of being racist, or bigots because, really, thats all you have.

44. Paligal - March 6, 2007

That was rude.

If people got by with “doing” things all the time and never bothered to communicate, the world would be one big mime show. Sharing your opinion or giving people perspective = an action. Writing newspaper columns and articles that are published locally and nationally, participating in community events = action. That’s what I do.

I understand that you’re presumptious and have a mantra of “shut up and DO something. Your opinion is worthless because you’re not saving the world in your free time.”

45. BrewFan - March 6, 2007


I’m just tired of people telling me Islam is a ‘religion of peace’ when 1400 years of history show otherwise. Your propaganda is not going to change the facts. For me, I’ll be convinced of the peacefulness of Islam when the Muslim theocracies allow freedom of religion and/or personal liberty. As you can imagine, I’m not holding my breath.

46. AmercanMOZ - March 7, 2007

Brewfan, you speak in rhetoric, without any clear, researched, or calculated understanding of what you are talking about. 1400 years show you otherwise? 1400 years of what? the religion? middle eastern empires? the fact is as far as tolerance goes, the last 1400 years should do just the opposite and show that middle eastern empires were quite tolerant, compared with the time. not that its relative tolerance has much worth in the grand ethical scheme of things, but what i am saying is that ‘muslim’ or middle eastern history is not unique in its violence, and rather to the contrary.

‘mainstream islam turns a blind eye…..’ i am not sure how many times i have heard it from countless others, but this statement is really starting to irritate me. for one, brewfan, please enter a few mosques and witness what goes on. in addition, think a little deeper about the issues behind hamas and fatha. i find it difficult to condemn people for donating money to orhpans and refugees in a grossly impoverished and oppressed society. people are not donating with the purpose of funding terrorism. nor are fatha or hamas two illegitimate terrorist regimes, they are political parties, and should be treated with the same scrutiny as any other political group. and yes, that means condemning any connection they have with the slaughter of innocent lives. it also means holding other states to the same standard. finally, it means they, more than anything else, perform a political and social welfare function in their society which needs to be recognized in order to understand the context.

brewfan, please follow this link, they are part of your ‘silent’ majority of mainstream muslims.


what is all this talk of muslim theocracies? the iranian revolution drastically upset the neighboring arab states because they did not want an islamic state imposing on their monarchial ones. most muslims live in indonesia. india, pakistan. generally they leave for better economic well-being, and often yes, greater political freedoms as well. what does that have to do with islam? an oppressive theocratic government is not an acceptable form of islamic rule, and these regimes do not represent islam. if people are leaving, it means they realize that. it doesnt reflect at all on the religion. see, the world is not black and white, and you need to use that head of yours to sift and winnow your way to understanding. then again, we are talking about an extremely small number of countries who really fit under the label of oppressive islamic theocracy.

skinbad, you cite the term ‘great satan,’ yet have no clue as to the reality of the situation. take for instance the city i live in. cairo. 17 million arabs here, mostly muslim, some copts, some catholics, a handful of jews. there is not one person here who has ever said a single negative thing about me for being american. in fact every single person loooves to talk with americans.then again, the average egyptian can also discern between politics and people, and many do not approve of american politics. but they clearly, clearly, clearly are aware that the people are good and kind and they have zero qualms with americans their selves. please research the iranian blogger community. travel pakistan. visit american mosques. it seems as though you guys live in a world created and decorated by the media. please, come back to reality.

47. steve_in_hb - March 7, 2007

1) Every copt I’ve met in th US has been happy as hell to be out of Egypt so they can practice their religion without harrassment and discrimination.

2) The Persians I’ve met have generally been really cool people and the women are beautiful. Amazingly beautiful.

3) A collection of press announcements doesn’t quite erase the images I remember of Muslims dancing in the street on 9/11. And they weren’t just stupid teenage boys – everybody from grandma to junior was out celebrating.

4) The double talk in certain mosques where one thing is said in English and another in Arabic is a little annoying – calling people of other faiths pigs and monkeys on the sly isn’t very endearing.

5) Following a rhetorical condemnation of terrorism with “but what you have to understand is…” gives the impression that there are a lot of “moderate” Muslims who don’t really think terrorism is THAT bad.

Look, I certainly believe that the majority of Muslims just want to work a job, have a family, and lead a quiet little life. The problem is that there is a not insignificant minority of your coreligionists who are doing a lot of saber rattling and a lot of actual killing.

Fair or not, unless you go ABOVE AND BEYOND in helping to kill/arrest/shout down/control these people, there will be the belief that they have the tacit support of the majority of Muslims.

To a great degree it seems Muslim countries have short man’s disease. They try to cover up their self-esteem issues by being hyper aggressive, pompous, and always over responding to imagined or insignificant slights.

Clean up your house, stop flying off the handle about every little perceived insult (cartoons), and stop blaming the rest of the world for the fact that Arab countries are basically the armpit of the world (employment, education, human rights, etc).

48. AmericanMOZ - March 8, 2007

thats funny, because what i saw was people crying in sorrow on 9/11. this isn’t an attempt at covering up the fact that people were in fact celebrating. it is to say however that the overwhelming response was incredibly sympathetic. You think Americans go walking around sobbing when 3000 people over here are killed? you done anything over and beyond lately to make-up for the actions of your government or affiliated groups?

there isn’t double talk in mosques, prayers are done in arabic. out of every mosque i have ever been to, things like you describe have not occured once.

you do realize that groups like muslim brotherhood are constantly kept out of politics and persecuted, right? international terrorists are not welcome guests of most regimes. that is not all encompassing, but that fact of the matter is that international terrorists are not celebrated heroes admired by mobs of people over here.

muslim majority countries have short man’s syndrome? what are you citing as far as being hyperagressive and pompous? are you talking about state governments or people? i’d really have to ask you to stroll the streets of an arab or muslim country, i want you to see it for what it is. it is more uncomfortable being an american in europe than it is the middle east. and if you are referring to cartoons, yea, it is a stupid thing to sporatically protest over, it should by no means be a reason for violence. but you see, these protests were already going on for various social reasons anyway, and while they were commonly reported as violent riots from the very beginning, that was not the case, there weren’t massive waves of violence due to it, cartoons did not incite violence. that said, what should have happened is the cartoon should have been addressed in the broader issue of european minority tolerance and used as a positive catalyst for social change in europe.

the problem with giving the order to ‘clean up one’s house’ does not reside in the state of affairs so much as it is a pompous statement. i will say right now middle eastern politics is too focussed on nationalism and not enough focused on further liberalization, though as one can perceive in the persian gulf, iran, and other states that progression is occuring healthily. there is quite a bit of poverty. i mean, you have the right to bring up the social plight of people here, it just doesnt seem you acknowledge that it goes both ways. i sincerely hope that as americans we can start cleaning up our house soon, in terms of crime, domestic abuse, rape, sexual exploitation, female degradation, education, poverty. but this all diverges from the point of this conversation, which was mostly about the warmongering nature of muslims and the blind eye they turn towards violence. which flat out is not true.

49. BrewFan - March 8, 2007

it is to say however that the overwhelming response was incredibly sympathetic.

there isn’t double talk in mosques, prayers are done in arabic. out of every mosque i have ever been to, things like you describe have not occured once

it is more uncomfortable being an american in europe than it is the middle east.

blah. blah. blah.

You say you’re an American so perhaps you’ll understand when I say don’t piss on my boots and tell me that its raining.

50. AmericanMOZ - March 8, 2007

This is my experience Brewfan, its not a lie. Perhaps you would like to enlighten us on the source of your esoteric regional knowledge.

51. BrewFan - March 8, 2007

Perhaps you would like to enlighten us on the source of your esoteric regional knowledge.

Sure, AmericanMOZ. Here’s a source for you start here.

52. Sobek - March 8, 2007

“I know several Syrian and Lebanese families, and one Egyptian;
need I say that you don’t mention the Jews around these people?”

Heh. I was on a bus in Cairo, chatting with some local guys, and one of them asked me what I thought about Israel. Let’s just say I’m glad I could use the “my Arabic isn’t very good” excuse to avoid that conversation. And that I know how to say “I don’t like violence” in Arabic.

AmericanMOZ said, “You think Americans go walking around sobbing when 3000 people over here are killed?”

Can you clarify something for me? You call yourself an American in your name, but then you say “over here” as though you aren’t in America. Where are you?

53. Bart - March 8, 2007

Paligal wrote:

anyone living there in the middle of a war having their family and neighbors killed right and left is liable to do things that are out of their mind, including joining in the melee.

In other words, Paligal blames Israel for Palestinians strapping on bomb-vests and blowing up themselves at an Israeli restaurant. She has just justified terrorism.

Good chap, indeed.

Middle of a war: What war? Israel is at war with the Palestinians? No, it’s the other way around. Israel wants to co-exist with the Palestinians.

Family members and neighbors being killed left and right: You must mean the Israelis who are being killed, yes? Because the whole world knows that Israel doesn’t kill Palestinians just because. The Palestinians on the other hand are aggressively attacking Israelis.

So that’s why they do it. Terrorism is a symptom of a larger pathology called Judaism. It has nothing to do with the Religion of Peace.

54. Bart - March 8, 2007

I know lots of Middle Easterners, too.

They are all liars. Some tell little lies; some tell big lies. It’s part of their culture to lie, deny, exaggerate,…

55. skinbad - March 9, 2007

Not really trying to pile on, AmericanMOZ, if you’re still around. But I’m wondering how much of your positive experiences with Islam are a result of your assimilation into it. I don’t mean that as a criticism. I’m just suggesting your Muslim friends have no reason to have any problems with you. Have you converted? Married into the faith? Done your best to learn the language and dress and act as a Muslim would? What if you (or someone else) still loved the culture and wanted to live in it, but felt strongly about wanting to have a Bible study group and invited friends for a Christian worship service each week. Maybe you invite some Jewish friends to visit you. Will your Muslim neighbors still be so fond of you?

56. geoff - March 9, 2007

And as pointed out by Ms. Hirsi-Ali, much of the “compatibility” between Muslims and other religions in the Middle East is due to their status as dhimmis.

That doesn’t play here.

57. AmericanMOZ - March 9, 2007

brewfan, thanks for the site, ive used it for research before. what exactly were you expecting me to get out of it, though?

skinbad, i am pegged as looking american wherever i go, and it is honestly like being a celebrity. and i am talking about the general population, not the tiny upper class, who really don’t have any personal qualms either. but lets take for instance last weekend. i went riding with some friends through some outer farming communities on the way from saqqara to cairo, and every time we entered a town, the children all ran up to come say hi and welcome us, twice even mothers ran out with their babies to tell me to take pictures of them. they love americans. or the other day i was walking around and a bunch of school groups were on some trip or something. it took me half an hour to get out of that area with all the pictures they wanted with me and talking about american and egypt.

and i live in an apartment with both copts, catholics, and muslims. they all get together to play soccer in the evening, on weekends go to movies together, and are generally close friends. the christians have bible study and it is no problem for anyone. christians do have it harder here, especially in grade schools, but i think many of you are mistaking government policies for popular attitudes. there are both churches and mosques in my district, and normal people are fine with each other. and both the christians and muslims are fine with jews, there are only 400 left in cairo as residents, i think, but they do know some ameirican jews over here. however both the christians and the muslims can’t understand why america is so attatched to israel and find fault in that.

bart- i was under the impression paligal was referencing iraqi sectarian violence. in any case, nowhere in anything she said was she justifying terrorism. what she was saying to all of these people who make illogical claims such as ‘islam is the religion of violence, just look at iraq,” was that an understanding of the situation is crucial to an understanding of the motivators, which are not islam. anyway bart, i don’t know if opening up the topic of israel is constructive to the point here, seeing as how its ethnic rather than religious conflict. actually its not really even ethnic but grounded in refugee rights. but nevertheless, yes, israel is killing palestinians, demolishing their homes, killing innocent civilians, and denying them rights under international law. no that does not justify suicide attacks on civilians. but to cast israel as some innocent, morally guided entity is moronic.

58. BrewFan - March 9, 2007

brewfan, thanks for the site, ive used it for research before. what exactly were you expecting me to get out of it, though?

Nevermind. I have more promising discussions that I can take part in.

Like talking to the wall.

59. Sobek - March 9, 2007

Just one anecdote to back up AmericanMOZ in part. I was in a cab in downtown Cairo, and I see a building with Stars of David carved into the stone. I asked the cabbie what it was, and he told me it was a temple. I was surprised, and asked if there were any Jews in Cairo, and he looked at me like I was a complete idiot. Of course there are Jews in Cairo — why wouldn’t there be? It’s not just what he said, but the genuineness of his reaction.

60. Sobek - March 9, 2007

Also, as an American who spoke Arabic (rudimentary, at least), I was a superstar in Cairo. People were amazed and thrilled to see a white guy who bothered to learn their language.

61. Media Bias Against Muslims? « Innocent Bystanders - May 25, 2007

[…] Bias Against Muslims? May 25, 2007 Posted by Michael in Current Events, Politics. trackback I’ve said it before. I’ll say it again. I think the fear of Muslims in America is unfounded, and […]

62. XRumakTheBest - November 6, 2007

XRumer 4.0 is the perfect program for promotion!
It’s have CAPTCHA recognizer, email verificator, and a lot of other functions…

But. I forgot link to it 😦

Can you give me URL to the xrumer description? screenshots, etc.


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