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Ballistic Blogging: Put Me Some Information Here, Please November 2, 2008

Posted by wintersetruss in Economics, Science.
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  I’ve got a couple of firearms that aren’t really useful.  No, really!  It’s twue!  It’s twue!

  I’ve got a Nagant revolver in 7.62×38 that a recent review in Shotgun News said is “a perfectly useful military sidearm, if your only duty is to execute bound prisoners.”  I’ve got a Stevens Favorite single shot rifle in .32 Long rimfire.  The major cartridge companies stopped loading that round in the 30’s, but Navy Arms has a plant in Brazil run up a quantity of them about every decade or so.  Unfortunately, the place where I could get them at a reasonable price ($25 for a box of 50, compared to $40 or $50 for the same box everywhere else), sold the rest of their stock last month.  Now I’m stuck with only 150 rounds of ammo for that White Elephant, so you can be darn sure that it won’t be my primary Zombie Gun when “Dammit, I TOLD You All To Be Prepared For a Zombie Apocalypse, But Did You Listen?   Noooooooooooooo!  Day” rolls around.  Well, at least it’s a really cool wallhanger.

  And now, I’ve got THIS:

  Well, I didn’t JUST get it.  I’ve had it since April.  I’m currently under a “don’t you DARE bring anything else home” embargo, and I just wanted to make it clear that I’m following directions on that front.  I got it from a guy at a local gunshow who sold it to me as a .32 S&W revolver for $50.  I’ve always had a fondness for the British Bulldog revolvers of Webley and other firms, so I figured “hey, I’ve got a couple hundred rounds of .32 S&W laying around, so what the hey?”  Well, when I got it home and tried to chamber a .32 S&W round into it, imagine my shock when the bullet was too darn big to fit into the chamber.  I’m talking diameter here, not length.  A .32 S&W bullet is about as small as it gets, and it wouldn’t fit into the cylinder?  What the hell did I buy?  There are no markings left on the gun, even though the nickel finish is fairly OK.  Apparently, it was re-nickeled at some time in the past, or else it’s one of those guns that just doesn’t HAVE any markings to begin with.  That’s not completely unusual with European guns from the late 1800’s.

  Now that I’ve had some time to research the problem (hey, I’m a busy man), I’ve figured out that what I’ve got is a European pistol chambered for “.320 Revolver”.  Best guess is that it’s either Belgian or Italian, and dated somewhere from 1870 to 1890.  It’s a British cartridge that went out of production in the 20’s.  According to “Cartridges of the World” by Barnes, the cartridge neck diameter of .320 Revolver is .320″, versus .334″ for the .32 S&W.  That means that unless I’m willing to tap the cartridges into the cylinder with a hammer (NOTE:  Sarcasm alert here people.  I’ve seen that Road Runner cartoon where Wile E. Coyote does that, and it ended pretty badly for the Coyote.), the .32 S&W round ain’t gonna work in this particular pistola.  The ballistic data from Barnes says that the factory loads for the .320 Revolver with an 80 grain lead bullet produces 550 fps and 54 ft-pounds of energy, compared to factory loadings for the .32 S&W 98 grain lead bullet that give you 705 fps and 115 ft-lbs.  What does that mean in English?  Well, the factory loading for the .25 ACP gives you 760 fps and 64 ft-lbs, and as far as self defense goes, it’s considered to be one step above throwing rocks.  Heck, the .22 short subsonic loading produces 786 fps and 38 ft-lbs, and I’ve seen those bullets disintegrate on road signs without penetrating.  Let’s just say that this gun won’t be useful for self-defense unless I get attacked by a VERY aggressive cockroach, and only then if it’s a medium sized or smaller roach.

  I’ve gone all over the net looking for ammunition for the old girl, and all I’ve found so far is one place in Florida that offers custom loaded ammunition for all sorts of exotic cartridges.  I haven’t called them yet to see how expensive the ammo would be, because I’ve discovered that I may have another option.  After reading my copy of “Cartridges of the World” again, I found out that the .32 Short Colt was derived from the .320 Revolver, and they are dimensionally identical.  Of course, the ballistics noted for the .32 Short Colt are 745 fps and 100 ft-lbs for the 80 grain lead bullet, which is almost twice what the .320 is supposed to produce.  Part of that could be that the old .320-chambered revolvers have looser tolerances, causing more energy to be lost through the cylinder gap, but I’m worried that even though Barnes’ CotW and several other sources tell me that I should be able to fire this cartridge in my pistol it’s going to make it come apart like a wet pinata in my hand when I pull the trigger.  Why am I even considering this?  Well, Winchester still loads ammo for the .32 Short Colt, and I can get a box of it for $25, versus God knows how much for custom loaded ammo.

  I know, I know.  It’s silly to risk your hand or a finger or two for a measley $10 or $20 for a box of 50 shells.  But, if the gun will work with this commonly available ammo, it would be nice to know it, so that if (OK, more like WHEN) I sell it I can represent it as a “shooter” versus a “display piece”.  I’m thinking about two possible ways to test the gun’s safety using .32 Short Colt ammo:

1.  Bring it to the next IBSBP and dare Michael to shoot it at the Pre-Superbowl Shootin’ Match.

2.  McGyver up a vise and string, and test it out at the farm from a safe distance, preferably from behind my Explorer.

  Of course, both of these options run the risk of destroying the pistol (don’t worry, Michael would be OK.  I’d at least make him wear welding gloves & some goggles while shooting the gun….I’m not a complete savage after all), leaving me out $50 and stuck with most of a box of useless (to me) ammunition.  Fifty bucks ain’t much, but if you think about it as “two and a half lap dances”, you realize that it ain’t exactly NOTHING.  Of course, I COULD get some components and handload some rebated loads, but the dies and brass for this task wouldn’t exactly be cheap, unless I’m willing to shoot it enough to justify the expense.

  That’s my quandry:  Push the envelope and possibly blow the gun to smithereens, or play it safe with expensive custom ammunition?  I’m probably going to go with “Door A”, but I’d love to get your input.

Comments

1. Sobek - November 2, 2008

Uh …

A?

2. Russ from Winterset - November 2, 2008

You do realize what the possible consequences of “A” are, right? I’m partial to that pathway myself, but it’s a shock to see an attorney agree with me on that course of action. The listed Options #1 and #2 are subsets of “A”, of course. Door “B” is the Safe Option, but that option also discourages the consumption of bacon and the careless use of fireworks, so that’s clearly no fun.

3. Sobek - November 2, 2008

Wait, letters and numbers? They didn’t train me for this sort of stuff in law school. I’m going to go with “whatever Geoff says.”

My real opinion is that you should rig it up to test fire without blowing off your fingers. As a father, you will come to realize that fingers are important for all sorts of things, like untying shoelaces that have been turned into a close approximation of the Gordian Knot, and for buttoning pajamas on squirmy children, and playing “got your nose, and you can have it back if you give me $20.”

4. Lipstick - November 2, 2008

And as a father you will also have to master answering questions like these:

“Daddy do you know everything in the world?”

“Yes, I do”

“OK, um, so how many ants are there in the world?”

(Answering with confidence): “2,694,847,002”

True story.

5. Russ from Winterset - November 2, 2008

Lipstick, that makes me giggle. My freshman roomie at college, Sanjay, was a notorious phone prankster. He used to call up people at random from the “herd” book (what we called the campus phone book, because it “had the whole herd in there”) and get them going on a line of BS. One of his favorite pranks to do while drinking was to call up Campus Information and ask them randomly bizarre questions. “What’s the fastest land animal?” “How much solid propellant was in each booster rocket on the old Apollo moon missions?” “Who’s the black private dick who’s a sex machine with all the chicks?” Stuff like that.

The funny thing? Our third year in college, he gets a part-time job working for ……… Campus Information. The best story he told me was about one night when he was in a “eff-it” mood, someone called in and said “I need a number”. So, he immediately rattles off seven random numbers, and the guy takes a second, then answers “OK, thank you.” and hangs up. I can only imagine what that guy thought to himself about 30 seconds after he hung up and realized what just happened to him.

6. Sobek - November 2, 2008

There is also a good chance that you will discover the unique sensation of your boy’s hot vomit running down your back, because you were hugging him right before he threw up.

If you learn to recognize the difference between the “hold me Daddy, my feelings are hurt” and the “hold me Daddy, I’m about to barf,” you will only experience that sensation once.

7. Lipstick - November 2, 2008

Another thing, there will come a time when your child will realize that salt and sugar look the same.

Dad: “Who put salt in the sugar bowl and made me sick?!”

Lipstick: (running to hide)

8. Michael - November 2, 2008

I’ve seen those bullets disintegrate on road signs without penetrating

Hey, I’ve often wondered about what kind of redneck shoots at road signs, because I didn’t know any. Now I do!

Regarding the gun, my advice is that you use it as a dipstick to check Moses’ diaper. That’s pretty much all it’s good for.

9. Dave in Texas - November 2, 2008

HAHAHAHAA

dad has an old .32 “lemon-squeezer” that takes those short .32s too. Hard to come by.

10. Russ from Winterset - November 2, 2008

I Double Dog Dare you to fire it, Michael. Hell, I TRIPLE Dog Dare you.

Now you have to fire the gun. Either that, or I’ll tell all your Texas neighbors you’re scared of a wimpy little mousegun. When word gets around your neighborhood, even Jessica Simpson will come over to your house to point & laugh at the pussy Yankee who’s too scared to fire the purse gun.

11. Russ from Winterset - November 2, 2008

Dave, is it the .32 COLT shorts, or the .32 S&W shorts? I think all the S&W lemon squeezers took the .32 S&W, which is hard to find at your average everyday gun store, but it’s fairly easy to order from a wholesaler. I bought 5 or 6 boxes of the .32 S&W short a few years ago after I bought a Harrington & Richardson Premier (look back at the picture of all the guns on Michaels pool table, and it’s the beat up little nickel revolver) for about $12 a box when I found a guy at a gunshow who wanted to get rid of it cheap. Seems that he bought a .38 S&W revolver and mistakenly bought a case of .32 S&W to feed it. Seems like a dumb mistake to make, but I didn’t hesitate to take advantage of his mistake.

12. eddiebear - November 2, 2008

The gun shop near my office had 2 Nagant pistols for about $120 or so. Only problem was that they didn’t have any ammo, and they really weren’t too sure where to get it. I noticed that the pistol had some weird loading mechanism that wasn’t like normal revolvers. Looked like a gate covering the individual holes.

13. eddiebear - November 2, 2008

Too bad I live in the city, or I would have a nice meeting between my Ruger and the Halloween pumpkins.

14. Russ from Winterset - November 2, 2008

The Nagant has a loading gate, sort of a primitive version of what you see on a Colt Peacemaker. The trigger pull is atrocious in single action, and absolutely beastly in double action, so it’s not exactly an accurate piece. It’s a seven shot revolver, which is unusual, and the cylinder moves forward during cocking to eliminate the cylinder/barrel gap. That was an innovative arrangement back in 1895 when it was designed, because it sealed the cylinder and improved the ballistics of the cartridge by over 30%. Unfortunately, the cartridge is a big steaming turd to begin with, so this complicated mechanism just makes it a breakable, complex big turd that’s 30% less steaming than before.

The correct ammo for the Nagant is hard to find cheap now, but when I got my gun I bought a couple hundred rounds of the ammo with it for about $18 for a box of 50. You can get it now for about $25 a box, and it’s readily available since so many of the revolvers have been bought here in the States. Some of these guns can fire .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Magnum, depending on the tolerances of the cylinder. Mine works OK with .32 Long, and I only paid $12 a box for that, so I use that ammo whenever possible.

No way in Hell I’d pay $120 for one of them. I bought mine for about $80 including shipping, and it’s borderline too expensive for what I got. Save your money and get something more useful, like a .38 special revolver or a Makarov semiauto.

15. Mrs Peel - November 2, 2008

Who’s the black private dick who’s a sex machine with all the chicks?

One time, I was out with a group of my friends, and we were talking about shafts in an engineering context. It was shaft this and shaft that, so I finally said, “Man, that cat Shaft is one bad mother!” They all stared at me blankly. I said sheepishly, “Just talkin’ ’bout Shaft,” and they continued to stare blankly.

Philistines.

16. Dave in Texas - November 2, 2008

how in the hell do you even know that line Peel?

17. Lipstick - November 2, 2008

Damn right

18. Lipstick - November 2, 2008

Peel, my sister has the same situation at her job.

If the girls weren’t such bitches to her, she would not take such delight in flummoxing them with big words. The blank stares are priceless.

19. Russ from Winterset - November 2, 2008

Dave, Peel knows things. I don’t know how or why, but she KNOWS THINGS. I’d be willing to bet that she even knows all the 30’s and 40’s pop culture references you see in the classic Looney Tunes cartoons.

Peel, I used to get the same looks from people when I would drop “Repo Man” quotes into conversations. After awhile, you realize that your humor is wasted on them, like pearls before swine.

20. Michael - November 2, 2008

Hell, I TRIPLE Dog Dare you.

Well, OK, I’m thinking about it.

Would this make the IB Wimmens like me more than Dave?

21. Mrs Peel - November 2, 2008

Growing up, I spent more time with my parents than with kids my age. Hence the pop culture references from a generation ago.

Well, I wasn’t trying to confuse my friends. I didn’t realize none of them would know the reference. I actually told their dad (two of them were sisters) about it later, and he laughed a lot. I also told him he didn’t educate them very well, heh.

So, I was totally flirting with the guys at swing dancing tonight, and one seemed very interested. He has the same name as the ex-boy. Yeah, that wouldn’t be awkward or, you know, confusing, or anything.

22. Russ from Winterset - November 2, 2008

“Would this make the IB Wimmens like me more than Dave?”

If we can get a picture of you in the Batsuit firing The Belgian Pocket Revolver of Death at the next IBSBP, I can pretty much guarantee that you’ll be the new darling of the IB wimmens.

23. Sobek - November 3, 2008

Assuming Michael still has a face afterwards.

Russ, you want me to whip up a Release of Liability form for you to give Michael?

24. Russ from Winterset - November 3, 2008

Dude, the gun would need all 5 shots to kill a medium sized rat. That ain’t exactly the same as having a .357 mag blow up in your hand. No way it ruins his face.

One, maybe two fingers tops. More likely the first two joints of his index finger & some nerve damage on his thumb and middle finger.

If it DOES go boom in a bad way, I’m going to use the “For GOD’S sake, he was wearing a homemade Batman suit” defense, so I probably won’t need the release.

25. xbradtc - November 3, 2008

Mrs. Peel,

At least you wouldn’t cry out the wrong name in a moment of passion, so you got that going for you…

26. Michael - November 3, 2008

I can pretty much guarantee that you’ll be the new darling of the IB wimmens.

See, that “pretty much” right there is what lawyers call a disclaimer. I’m not so sure about this.

27. Michael - November 3, 2008

“For GOD’S sake, he was wearing a homemade Batman suit”

Hey, that is not a homemade Batman suit. It was purchased for me by women in Marketing.

28. nicksterdemus - November 3, 2008

Who’s the cat that won’t cop out when there’s danger all about? ” “! Right on…

Fine, I challenge you to a duel on the field of honor. I’ll be totin’ my Forehand & Wadsworth 38 S&W calibre British Bull-Dog.

I’ll bring my 8-track of Hot, Buttered Soul…


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