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The Poverty Brand™ August 4, 2011

Posted by Michael in Economics.
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Everybody agrees that our fiscal problems are directly attributable to “entitlement spending.”  Nobody agrees on what to do about it.

During the Great Depression, my Grandpa Dave worked for the Works Progress Administration building roads.    (This was FDR’s failed “stimulus” plan.)  I heard about how he would come home exhausted and drenched in sweat.  He worked himself half to death, because he was ashamed  to be receiving public assistance and wanted to prove to himself that he had earned his pay.  That   is the attitude we need today.  Instead, we have created a culture where women think it is perfectly OK to make a career out of being sluts, pumping out babies, and expecting the public to take care of them and their bastards.

I have the solution.  Let’s make poverty shameful again.  Let’s expurgate the entire concept of “entitlement” from our public discourse, and go back to the concept of charity. Poor people should feel pitied. Instead, they feel oppressed if they don’t think the government is doing “enough.”

See, I have no issue with a social safety net.  I just think the beneficiaries of this net should be grateful and embarrassed.  Instead, we have a growing population who thinks they are “entitled” to food stamps, AFDC, Section 8 housing, a free cell phone, health care, a nice hot lunch for the kids instead of Mom packing a lunch box (even in the summer), and on and on. 

The “entitlement” mentality perfectly suits the massive bureaucracies that support their dependencies and are very well paid to do so, and the fraudsters who prey on the system. So, in America we have “poor” people who, by any global standard, are living large with cable TV, air conditioning and internet access. Meanwhile, the average taxpayer is getting raped.

In order to stop this, poverty needs to be understood as it used to be — something that is shameful. Consider this as a marketing exercise.  We need to create a brand identity for poverty.

Start by picking a color.  I nominate orange, because it is the most annoying color.

Next, we need a logo.  Here’s a candidate:

OK, now we need a jingle to associate with poor people.

The first 20 seconds of this song come to mind:

So far so good. We now have the essential elements of the Poverty Brand™, oriented around the color orange and the “loser” theme.  How do we use it?  The possibilities are endless.

1.  Food stamp recipients should be given a plastic debit card that is orange and about three times as large as a credit card, so it is real conspicuous.  When they check out at the grocery store, an orange light should go off (like the K-Mart “blue light specials” of yore). The PA could announce, “poor person checking out register 3″ and then the jingle could be played.

2.  Anyone receiving public health care assistance should wear an orange hospital gown, and the Loser Logo should be posted on their hospital door so that passers-by can walk into the room, view the objects of their charity, and (hopefully) receive their heartfelt gratitude.  The Loser Jingle should be piped into their room.

3.  All Section 8 housing should have orange doors with the Loser Logo.

4.  Children enrolled in Head Start, which is nothing more than a massive free babysitting service which achieves no educational objectives (according to DOE’s own study) should have to wear orange T-shirts while in attendance. The kids won’t care; the parents will be ashamed.

5.  Kids who get free school lunches should be required to wear an orange hat during the lunch period. Hey kid, maybe Mom should make your lunch.

6.  If you get AFDC, your hair must be dyed Loser Orange™ or you will lose your benefits.  We’ll pay for the dye.

7.  Free or subsidized phones should be orange with the Loser Logo prominently stamped on them.

I could go on, but you get my point.  Once again, poverty should be a stigma, not a self-righteous badge of oppression. Please feel free to contribute your own ideas for the Poverty Brand™ in the comments.

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Comments»

1. geoff - August 4, 2011

Bwahahaha!! I knew that if I started posting again you’d get sucked in.

Good to see you putting posts up.

2. Michael - August 4, 2011

Geoff, I knew you were doing that. I’m ashamed of myself for submitting to your crude manipulations.

3. geoff - August 4, 2011

Well I knew that you’d know that I knew, but I also knew that we’d both know that knowing or not, you’d succumb.

4. Michael - August 4, 2011

Well, I knew that you know that I know that you knew.

*beats head on desk*

5. Michael - August 4, 2011

What actually triggered this post is an article I read somewhere where somebody was opining that they had a right to a free cell phone because it was necessary for “peace of mind,” to which they were entitled. That got me frothing at the mouth and yelling at Cathy.

6. Michael - August 4, 2011

I mean, sheesh, “entitlement” used to mean the rights of the aristocracy because of their bloodline. Now it means the right of anybody to suck on the taxpayers’ teat.

7. clar - August 4, 2011

How about mandatory birth control shots for females on gov assistance? How about drug tests for anyone on gov assistance? How about anyone on gov assistance loses the right to vote for 5 years?

8. Retired Geezer - August 4, 2011

How about anyone on gov assistance loses the right to vote for 5 years?

Preach it Sistah! (brotha?)

9. Retired Geezer - August 4, 2011

Thanks, Michael for the LRB video.
We saw those guys recently at the county fair, still rocking after all these years.
Their lead player did some excellent MELODIC solos on their albums.
Not like some look-how-fast-I-can-play fool.
“Dude, play a quarter note once in a while”.

BTW the soundman was a jerk.

10. Michael - August 4, 2011

Not like some look-how-fast-I-can-play fool.

I give Clapton a lot of credit for trying to stop that nonsense with his “slowhand” attitude. He could easily do the dazzling riffs, and chose not to.

11. Cathy - August 4, 2011

That got me frothing at the mouth and yelling at with Cathy.

… who ENCOURAGED me to put up a post about it.

Fixtd.

12. daveintexas - August 4, 2011

We have to cut them off.

Shame will not work.

13. Michael - August 4, 2011

I disagree, Dave. You underestimate the psychological power of shame.

Humans are essentially pack animals. The need to fit in is wired in our heads real deep, and shame is the experience of being left out.

We all learned this in high school.

14. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere - August 4, 2011

I disagree with you, Batman, and agree with Dave. (There’s a shock)

Shame is dead. Among the entitlement class, the shame is actually working for something, rather than having it given to you. You need only look no further than the latest from the Wrong Reverend Jack-Son which I posted yesterday. If shame were possible any longer, that hustler would have been tarred and feathered ages ago.

15. daveintexas - August 4, 2011

Michael, usually you are wrong and this is no exception.

We are well into a 3rd, perhaps 4th generation for whom shame is as alien a concept as liberty or differential equations. They have been conditioned away from any notion of self-reliance, from the crib to their present woes. That concept never entered their world.

They are Pavlov’s dog, going to the slot when the bell rings.

And there are more humans in their pack than in yours.

16. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere - August 4, 2011

The need to fit in is wired in our heads real deep, and shame is the experience of being left out.

True, but ask yourself who these people are feeling left out of. Answer: they don’t. When all your peers suck the government teat and none of them have any shame in doing so (Thanks decades of Democrat vote-buying with taxpayer dollars and all the perverse incentives that come along with it!)you don’t have any shame. You only know that government gives you stuff that other people pay for. An entire subculture with absolutely no skin in the game, and a rapacious envy and lust for luxury goods, electronics, etc.

I just don’t believe that what you propose is possible.

17. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere - August 4, 2011

Dang.

It’s like Dave and I are sharing the same brain or something.

18. lauraw - August 4, 2011

When the city of Hartford, CT decided that there was an awful lot of welfare fraud going on and finally made welfare folks come in person to claim their checks (to weed out the non-persons and double-identities), there was a coolish rain on that day.

So the people had to stand in a line outdoors, in the rain, to claim their free money and have their identities verified.

I will never forget watching that newscast, as long as I live.

At the time I was living with my grandmother and looking after her. That was a round-the-clock job, because she was a diabetic renal patient on dialysis. I saw some wicked and bloody stuff as a teenager, all alone, dealing with her situations at 3 am.

Also, I had a job. Also, I was putting myself through college. Honestly, sometimes I didn’t even know where I was supposed to be going when I walked out to my little shitbox car in the morning (my welfare/ drug dealer neighbors had way better cars).

And so, I’m eating some late dinner after work this one evening in Nonna’s chair after she had gone to bed, watching on the TV what had happened just a few blocks away earlier in the day.

Healthy, young people standing on line, BITCHING THEIR EYES OUT to the sympathetic reporters, about having to stand on line an hour in rain to get their bread for the month from Uncle Sugar. A row of umbrellas, waiting for absolutely unearned goodies, and FUCKING BITCHING ABOUT THE GODDAMNED CONDITIONS.

I was still a dumbshit math-challenged liberal then, but that was the beginning of the end of that nonsense.

You simply cannot work your ass off in three different directions, and see that bullshit happen in front of your face, and conclude that it’s right for you to pay for it.

19. lauraw - August 4, 2011

*whistles for some liberal trolls*

SOOOEEEEE

SOOO – EEEE

c’mon

let me hear how I deserve to pay for that bullshit somehow

20. daveintexas - August 4, 2011

Cut them off.

It’s the only thing that will work. Which we semi-proved in the Clinton years.

21. Anonymous Liberal Troll - August 4, 2011

You’re all crazy.

These people are on welfare because they couldn’t possibly take jobs available to them. How do you feed a family on minimum wage? How do you buy clothes for seven kids on minimum wage? Or get a place to live.

This is a nation of plenty. You rich people can afford to share. And you need to. Or else.

22. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere - August 4, 2011

Cut them off.

It’s the only thing that will work. Which we semi-proved in the Clinton years.

But then how will Democrats buy votes?

I just don’t see that you’re thinking this through, Dave. Your priorities are all wrong for Washington D.C. and many stte capitols.

23. daveintexas - August 4, 2011

Let em buy votes with their own money. Or Matt Damon’s.

That’s the heart of the matter (I state the obvious). This is nothing more than Tammany bosses handing out cash and sandwiches on the docks.

It’s only about buying votes. That’s all it’s ever been about.

24. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere - August 4, 2011

Bbbbbbut Dave!!!! They care more than you do. Just ask them. They’ll tell you.

25. daveintexas - August 4, 2011

One of ace’s best bits in a while I think, that speaks to the whole “caring” thing…

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/319640.php

26. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere - August 4, 2011

Where did Michael go?

Is he stroking his hoe and muttering “My Preciousssssss…”?

27. osoloco - August 4, 2011

My cousin’s wife was bragging about her 501c job explaining to Illegals what they were “entitled” to. She didn’t appreciate my ” bus ride back to Mexico” comment. New Mexico was complaining about all the AZ illegals that moved here after SB1070 being a drain on our economy. Maybe, we shouldn’t over all the “entitlements” to illegals/

28. osoloco - August 4, 2011

“offer” not “over”. Stupid wine

29. Cathy - August 4, 2011

I think the shame will work if given time. Won’t work overnight, but when whiney assed lazy folks realize that their complaints aren’t working, they will start finding alternatives.

I think a good comparison is Sherrif Joe Arpaio’s approach with the pink jail uniforms and sleeping in tents and eating pb&j sammiches. When his prisoners realize they are stupid losers and not special, they will lose interest in their status quo. And even if some don’t at least the rest of us who work for a living and contribute to the community will feel better about it.

30. Mark in NJ - August 5, 2011

Lots of great ideas here. But, looking at it from the left, I think what’s really needed is establishment of a new U.S. Dept of Shame & Humiliation. More fed spending, I realize, but for something this important, we can find the money *somewhere*.

First initiative is get shamelessness classified as a disease. Put Big Pharma (which is hemorraging jobs here in NJ) to work on novel blockbuster therapies.

From there, we can set up “Losers Only” drinking fountains and lunch counters — good for reinforcing stigmatization, plus: who wants their cooties?

Geoff can be Undersecretary of Metrics & Graphs, in charge of coming up w/ data and trend analyses that correlate increased public humiliation with decreased sense of entitlement and reliance on public assistance.

Michael is obvious candidate for CIO. Thinking of PSAs: “this is your brain on shamelessness”…or Michael himself as spokesman — by the pool, outraged, incredulous: “do you realize I had to wait 2 extra weeks to recoat because my money was tied up buying cell phones for those people?!?”

And if all this fails, fallback is Plan DinT: immediate cut-off of all funding for medicaid, food stamps, cell phones, etc. And use the funds to erect giant walls around trailer parks and blighted urban areas (Kurt Russell in charge of this). Because a hungry mob may be an angry mob, but think about a hungry mob that can’t even order takeout.

31. wiserbud - August 5, 2011

I think the shame will work if given time. Won’t work overnight, but when whiney assed lazy folks realize that their complaints aren’t working, they will start finding alternatives.

I think Michael’s concept of color and logos will actually have the opposite effect. They will become symbols of “sticking it to the man” and “keepin’ it real” in the welfare community. In fact, it would probably become the next hipster douchebag trend, in order to show solidarity with the poor, oppressed masses (with whom they would never spend a single second if they could avoid it, btw.)

For example, do you know where the idea of wearing your pants down below your ass came from? Prison inmates used to have to wear their clothes like that because, invariably, they were not given the right size clothes when they were incarcerated.

Now, most people would think that one would try to avoid looking like a convicted criminal just out of a simple sense of shame. But those people would be wrong. It is now “cool” to look like like someone who has done time in prison.

Shame is dead.

32. Retired Geezer - August 5, 2011

It is now “cool” to look like like someone who has done time in prison.

Ya.
Makes the idiots easier to spot though.

*hikes pants up to normal location, just under armpits*

33. Michael - August 5, 2011

Prison inmates used to have to wear their clothes like that because, invariably, they were not given the right size clothes when they were incarcerated.

Actually, I read about that somewhere. The main reason for the style is that prison inmates are not allowed to have belts, so even pants that fit reasonably well will tend to slide down below the waistband of the boxers. The fashion was originally called jailin’.

34. Cathy - August 5, 2011

I don’t care what y’all say or think about this. Bottom line for me, in my hateful-Hobbitty-extremist-racist mind, orange a much easier to see for target practice.

*cleans and re-loads all clips of Kimber*

Okay. I keed.

Wiser, right-on about the jail-couture. They are issued trousers that are too big for them and not given belts, so that if they run in an attempt to escape (I shit you not) they will need to use their hands to hike up their pants or they will fall down and slow them down.

35. Cathy - August 5, 2011

Btw – recently the Forth Worth Transit Authority BANNED the draggin-pants look on all public transportation. If a bus driver or other transit worker sees your underwear or butt-crack because your pants are hanging low, he/she can kick you off.

Looks like that SHAME-thing is workin’ to me.

36. Cathy - August 5, 2011

I just remembered a high school social sciences prof telling our class (this is back in the sixties) that studies supported that shame is one of the best motivators for teaching socialization. This was back before the lefties took over our school systems. THANK GOD!

He used the example of a dirty diaper, saying that across societies and cultures, research was supporting that cajoling with positive reinforcement DID NOT WORK as well as a peer (little one for the diaper crowd) saying to another toddler “Hey, you stink because of that load in your drawers!”

37. Russ from Winterset - August 5, 2011

As a fan of the Iowa State University Cyclones (school colors: cardinal & gold), I heartily endorse any plan that forces all shameless deadbeats to dress like Texas fans.

“Hook ‘em, Homeless!”

38. kevl - August 5, 2011

Pretty harsh post Michael. Pretty cold. Which is not a bad thing.
I once received government cheese, milk, and peanut butter to feed my kids whilst Mr Kevlar worked 9am to midnight,
I still feel that shame. It was absolutely mortifying.

When I was ready to get off WIC, the lady at the agency begged me to stay on it. BEGGED. I ran from that place.

39. Michael - August 5, 2011

or Michael himself as spokesman — by the pool, outraged, incredulous: “do you realize I had to wait 2 extra weeks to recoat because my money was tied up buying cell phones for those people?!?”

That’s a great idea, Mark. I could gesture angrily with a pina colada in one hand and a cigarette in the other. Poor people everywhere would hang their heads at the humiliation being heaped upon them.

40. Cathy - August 5, 2011

Kevl, we ALL pay into unemployment insurance when we work, and I’m all in favor of a small safety-net. But we all can easily see, if we have our eyes open, that many people are simply stealing.

My bro works at a grocery store part time because his position as a university prof doesn’t pay him enough. His class load continues to get cut and he is kinda stuck. While he works in the grocery store, he regularly sees very well-dressed people, many are immigrants because they don’t speak English, buying steaks, lobster, and all kinds of fancy stuff and non-food items with food stamps AND then they want the help to push their grocery carts of stuff to their shiny new cars. Bro’s car is now in the shop un-drivable. He is working two jobs, bumming rides to work, while these folks parade around TAKING whatever they can from us while we push their grocery carts for them.

*would you like paper or plastic?*

41. kevl - August 5, 2011

Agreed Cathy. Michael is right. There is no shame. It is obscene.

Everyone is now “entitled” and the moment they feel the smallest bit of inconvenience, pain, or need for giving up something, they squeal like stuck pigs.

I wonder how many of those well dressed immigrants are now teaching the courses he was cut from?

42. daveintexas - August 5, 2011

>> And if all this fails, fallback is Plan DinT: immediate cut-off of all funding for medicaid, food stamps, cell phones, etc.

Please explain to me why you or I should be paying for anybody else’s cell phone.

43. scott - August 5, 2011

It’s supposed to help them find jobs Dave.

They couldn’t compete against the cell phone owners in the job market.

44. daveintexas - August 5, 2011

I was told it was for their “peace of mind”, freedom from worrying about one more bill they couldn’t pay.

45. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere - August 5, 2011

They can’t find jobs when they aren’t looking for them.

I’m pretty sure the Job Fairy™ doesn’t exist in their world either.

46. Texpops - August 5, 2011

Orange would just become a gang color.

47. Instapundit » Blog Archive » A MODEST PROPOSAL for addressing poverty. “I have no issue with a social safety net. I just think … - August 5, 2011

[...] MODEST PROPOSAL for addressing poverty. “I have no issue with a social safety net. I just think the beneficiaries of this net should [...]

48. michael61 - August 5, 2011

I’ve always thought social security should be called “old people’s charity pension”.

49. Buckley Rumsfeld - August 5, 2011

Dave is right; take a look at this little product of Democrat multi-generational “caring” and “compassion” and you will see that shame is an impotent weapon at this point in the battle.

http://dimewars.com/Video/LoL—Judge-Judy-Clowns-College-Student-Who-Thinks-He-s-A-Pimp-For-Being-A-Free-Loading-Welfare-Receipiant.aspx?bcmediaid=a179d01f-439c-4417-a2ed-4087828f53b1

50. daveintexas - August 5, 2011

Hahaha. Michael, you just got dumped on by Glenn Reynolds.

I told you shame was a bad idea.

51. annie - August 5, 2011

Shame them, yes, and shun them as well, in all public places.

52. Darrell - August 5, 2011

“I am for doing good to the poor, but…I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed…that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
— Benjamin Franklin

53. John - August 5, 2011

Based on my experience I would say what people lack is pride. In my childhood we just did without until we were old enough to earn our way. We would not apply for not accept hand-outs or scraps. It was a great incentive and I believe l learned some great life skills from the experience. I have been employed since 15 and am still employed full-time at 67. Retirement is not a word or situation I contemplate. Perhaps someday but certainly not now. I have too much to give and so much more to learn

54. SK - August 5, 2011

I get that this is tongue ‘n’ cheek (at least sort of). It’s entertaining and I like how your mind works.

But to treat it seriously for a moment, I only have one disagreement. I don’t think poverty should be shameful – there are honorable poor people. I think laziness, irresponsibility, and being a drain on hard-working people should be shameful.

Case in point, a good friend of mine has a brother who does nothing and lives on welfare. Every so often the brother calls my friend and asks for money. I don’t think “shame” is in his vocabulary. Your system might help.

55. The Sanity Inspector - August 5, 2011

A county government is trying to scrape through hard times by furloughing its workers several days over the summer. One worker thanked the county for doing so, because now he was eligible for food stamps.

Congratulations on the Instalanche.

56. Neil - August 5, 2011

If you are receiving taxpayer-funded assistance, you are taking away some of the economic freedom of those taxpayers paying for you. In return, you should have to give up some of your freedoms, until you are no longer receiving assistance.

Some suggestions:
– Work complexes: You get to live here and receive job training/practical education here for free, but you have to work either maintaining the complex (maintenance, food, laundry, etc.) or producing whatever it is the complex produces. You have curfews and you can only leave the complex with permission. The complex is heavily guarded and you have little entertainment or privacy.
– Voting: If you need a nanny state to care for you, you’re no longer considered an adult. You can give up some or all of your voting shares in order to receive benefits. After all, if you can’t run your own life, why should you have a say in how government is run?
– Audits/Spending restrictions: if you receive public assistance, you get someone nosing around in your finances and in your home on a regular basis. Or maybe, your finances are completely out of your hands, and you have to submit requisitions for unapproved purchases or to go over your set budget for given categories.

57. TomB - August 5, 2011

What passes for “poverty” in the United States is a joke. There are people in countries such as Iraq, Philippines, and Bangladesh who would kill to live for just 1 day in the style that most “poor” Americans live. 1 or 2 cars, big screen TVs, cell phones, washers and dryers, Internet access… all are commonplace in most American homes. The percentage of homes without these items is less than the percentage of homes living under the “poverty” line.

58. Hoth - August 5, 2011

I think this is a fantastic idea given that most of the problems in the U.S. today result from a distinct lack of shame. It’s long overdue for shame to return.

59. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere - August 5, 2011

Actually, now that I think of it, it isn’t enough just to give them cell phones.

After all, they might be out driving when someone tries to call them about a job opportunity. If they answer without a headset, then they are a distracted driver and a public health menace. I think we should have to issue them all bluetooths as well, just so they don’t hurt anyone.

60. David Wayne Layman - August 5, 2011

To SK:

I grant you that Michael’s wording is not precise enough: he is not really saying that “poverty should be shameful”. (Yes, I know he says that at one point.) There is nothing shameful about working hard and honestly to support a family. (My dad supported 8 children on $5K in the early 70s–about 25K today. But dad and mom refused to let us get free lunches.)

He is saying that STAYING in poverty with the help of the public dole ought to be shameful. So let’s shame the leeches.

61. Zain - August 5, 2011

How about requiring every grocery store to have a welfare register. Welfare recipients could only check out at that register. It would be the only one accepting welfare debit cards.

62. Jay - August 5, 2011

How could you leave out having the phones’ ringtone be ‘Lonesome Loser’??

63. Lawyer Mom - August 5, 2011

@Lauraw (post #18): It’s taken me 46 years to get the truism, “you bite the hand that feeds you.” But I get it now, unfortunately.

The other day I bought some beer and groceries at Target. The cashier pulled the 12-pack aside and said, “you want me to ring this up separately, right?” Her question confused me. And I was so elated — giddy, if you must know — that she’d CARDED me for the beer that I couldn’t process it on the spot.

But I get it now. Paying for the booze separately has become a standard check-out question because, well, paying with food stamps has become standard. 1 in 7, I read today.

64. Lawyer Mom - August 5, 2011

P.S. to Kevin — how about stigmatizing the tax payers instead? I think Obama would go for it since it totally fits with his class-warfare theme.

65. Tushar - August 5, 2011

Holy Instalanche, Batman!

66. Libertarian - August 5, 2011

If you use the public road, arent you sucking on the public teat? Using public shame is an idea, but where will you draw the orange line? What happened to the “negative income tax” ideas?

67. Johnnie Linn - August 5, 2011

Orange is a nice touch because it is also the color used by the Daily Kos blog, perhaps for a rollout as the theme color for the Progressives.

68. Mike G - August 5, 2011

I have worked in an urban school system for ten years and I can tell you that there is no shame in certain communities. Kids brag about family members in jail or how they got free braces on medicaid. When I was a kid there was a family in my school whose father had gone to prison and it was never mentioned except in whispers because we all under stood the shame that they felt. Today there is no shame on planning pregnancies at age 16 in order to qualify for Section 7 Housing when 18 so that they can live on their own. And of course my favorite was my explaining to high school kids that the “income tax” is not a check you get from the government in the Spring but instead money that many people pay to the government.

69. Dan in MD - August 5, 2011

Libertarian – we pay for the public road through our taxes on gasoline – and everything else. The government can raise money by selling the road and the rights to run it (with a couple of provisions such as no one can be denied access and if you do a toll road, there is no direct connection between payment and who pays, so you cannot track anyone on the road.)

As for welfare – they have to get up every day and report to the welfare office by 7AM to get their card stamped for the day – and they are given cash for the day at that point. Early rising, long lines, only enough cash for the day…..good bye partying all night, having enough at one time to do anything more than buy food for the day,….kinda like being a teenager with tight ass parents.

Or a tween.

Made my kids get work quick.

70. AA in St Louis - August 5, 2011

I live in Missouri and Missouri food stamps are being used in Hawaii (and numerous other states). What’s up with that? I get to pay for people’s food in Hawaii. I can’t even afford to go to Hawaii. New rule: Accept Out-of-State food stamps and the store should just explode in a cloud of orange smoke, after which we hear ‘Lonesome Loser’.

71. 347r295to8lgfduy - August 5, 2011

“Let’s make poverty shameful again. ”

If the government was doing it’s job running this country properly you would have a point, but with the government ruining the economy through bad policies you are blaming the victims.

72. eric miller - August 5, 2011

simpler plan
you want a check?
sit at a desk 9-5, M-F
just sit, no work required
show up on time, stay all day and get your check
don’t show up, leave early or get in late, your check is docked
no tv, radio, no damn noise
welcome to the real world and i don’t give a damn if you are disabled because the guy in the cubicle next to me comes to work in a damn scooter because he’s paralyzed.

73. OssianSweet - August 5, 2011

How about a website with a map function that shows which addresses in a neighborhood receive welfare or food stamps, along with info on how much they receive and for how long. Taxpayers should have a right to know exactly who they’re helping, and this would help people see where and how the system is abused. Would also of course deter recipients from getting on welfare in the first place, and encourage those on it to get off, making government help more of a last resort instead of the first.

74. Allison - August 5, 2011

Here in MN, all of the rec centers in Mpls and St. Paul offer free lunches. To anyone, any age. In case they are hungry, you see. Box lunches, with sandwiches, fruit, cookie, and milk or juice.

Free. any day. to anyone. no one asks if you need it, or can afford it, or anything at all that might make you feel ashamed to not take charity.

see, first, free lunches were needed at school to keep kids from being hungry. then it was mean to shame those kids, so any kid had to be able to get free lunch. then, free lunch at school became free breakfast too. and now, well, it’s summer, and there’s no school, so those kids would go hungry if we didn’t offer free food to anyone. so we offer “Free” food to anyone.

the middle class thinks they are entitled to these things now. giving them up is going to hurt. will they be willing to accept their own pain?

75. Comrade_Tovarich - August 5, 2011

While I want drugs legalized–it’s my body–I would love all welfare recipients to be regularly drug tested. I have to piss on a cup to earn money given to them. Why shouldn’t they piss in a cup to prove they warrant welfare payments?

76. Cathy - August 6, 2011

Wow. Instalanche! Cool, Batman! Told ya this would be a good one…

77. ll - August 6, 2011

I am a disabled Vietnam veteran with a Purple Heart and Bronze Star. I receive a small amont from food stmps and property tax relief to supplement the VA compensation. Should I be subject to your program?

78. Darren - August 6, 2011

Poverty was never shameful–as most people throughout humanity have been poor. Being taken care of by people outside your family, now that was shameful.

Your point was well made with that one clarification.

79. AlabamaFatbody - August 6, 2011

#56 Neil – I love the idea of auditing recipients.

80. Paul K Choate - August 6, 2011

I agree 100% with all of this.

The “entitlement” mentality has gotten completely out of hand.
I started my adult life 19 years ago with nothing but a pregnant girlfriend, a strong back and a willingness and need to do the right thing. I got an entry level construction job 2 hours away and worked 10-12 hours a day 6 days a week to provide for my new family.

Fast forward to today and I have honed the skills learned back then into a successful career that pays very very well and is about as secure as you can get these days. (I am a Millwright, we tend to learn the jobs of all the trades and most of our job is too technical to learn if you can’t read/speak English lol) The only “handout” I ever had was a pell-grant when I went to trade school 8-3 everyday and working 3-11 in a factory at night.

All it takes is pride and the mentality that you can do anything if you set your mind to it.

81. Brian Macker - August 6, 2011

You don’t go far enough. Charity is voluntarily given, and with conditions. This is an involuntary system because it relies on taxes for funding and therefore the people receiving support should have to repay the funds when they get back on their feet. Every cent.

If they wanted unemployment insurance they should have bought it. In fact, I think the government should be able to force people to by insurance (or have sufficient funds set aside) to cover what amounts to know risks. It should only use public taxes to act as an insurer of those who can prove they were insured, their insurance company was re-insured and it failed anyway. Insurance should be taxed to pay for risks of failure and the funds only used for that purpose. Not bailing out the failed company but paying on it’s obligations.

82. dlr - August 6, 2011

If you ask me, the Civilian Conservation Corps was the only thing Roosevelt did right.

We should bring back the idea of ‘no work, no pay’. Anyone who gets charity should have to work hard as a part of it. Any charity given (at least by the state) should be a charity JOB, not a charity HANDOUT. 8 hours of hard work should get them three meals and a place to sleep, in cash or in kind, but no handouts. Period. If they have 7 kids that shouldn’t exempt them in any way. In fact, they should have to work an extra couple of hours a day to help pay their kids way too.

What kind of jobs? Doesn’t matter. Digging holes and filling them up again the next day would be better than giving them money for free.

83. Michael - August 6, 2011

Just to be clear, while I raised a serious issue with this post regarding the ever expanding entitlement mentality, it was also intended to be funny.

84. teapartydoc - August 6, 2011

I hadn’t realized that the lead of the Little River Band was a baritone. The harmony was a real fooler on the radio.

85. Retired Geezer - August 6, 2011

…it was also intended to be funny.

You mean the Annoying Orange wasn’t real?

*rethinks the concept*

86. Cynic - August 6, 2011

I do believe in bringing back the shame. But here’s the thing…it ain’t welfare moms who are the big problem (they’re the small problem). The big problem is granny, gramps and their social security, medicare, and medicaid.

I don’t think social security should be ended — but I don’t think that existing solely on social security should mean that you should get to keep your house. Maybe you have to sell that, or get roommates. Hey, if the young have to move back in with family, or split a tiny place with two other people, why shouldn’t the old?

Don’t tell me they “earned” the right. They didn’t contribute enough to pay for 20, 30 years of the dole. And in any event, they voted in people who spent it.

….of course I may be just a bit bitter because the old man sloshed off his @$$ at 11 a.m. at the bank in front of me yesterday. Or the old guys who’ve nearly ran over me this month in their sport utility tanks that they shouldn’t have a license to drive. (I had the right of way in both cases and was walking slowly because I was holding a 5 year olds hand. One of them HONKED at me. Don’t even get me started at the old creep who was pissed because when I was 9 months pregnant I walked too slow.) I’m paying for old guys to get drunk and this sort of $h!T treatment?!

Not to go off on a rant here…but the stock broker guys in their Audi’s and BMWs who you’d expect to be the Type A pissed off got to get to work out of my way b!tch sort are way nicer to mom’s and pregnant women than old people at the wheel. At least in Chicago.

WTF!

87. Babcock - August 6, 2011

“Let em buy votes with their own money. Or Matt Damon’s.

That’s the heart of the matter (I state the obvious). This is nothing more than Tammany bosses handing out cash and sandwiches on the docks.

It’s only about buying votes. That’s all it’s ever been about.”

Right you are, daveintexas. Folks who pay no income tax should not be eligible to vote. No representation without taxation!

88. cink ANNE - August 6, 2011

Right on!!!!!! Our society used to have “taboos” that defined and dictated decent behavior. Pregnant without a husband and no way to take care of the baby? Girls used to “go away” to have the baby, and it was often put up for adoption. Better for the baby and better for society. Couldn’t get a job or provide for your family. The “poor house” was there to help. But, the taboo associated with it made it a last possible alternative. No home, no where to sleep? We called them hobos, bums. The taboo of homelessness kept many on the straight and narrow. Charities were there for those who met unexpected obstacles and needed temporary help. Then we started worrying about feelings and self esteem. We removed the stigmas attached to less than stellar lifestyles. Liberals began to bemoan the downtrodden rather than encourage them to lift themselves up.

89. “Let’s make poverty shameful again” | Wizbang - August 6, 2011

[...] as a Catholic, the poor and the dispossessed demand my empathy.But I tell you, there’s a point being made here that simply screams for attention:During the Great Depression, my Grandpa Dave worked for the Works [...]

90. daveintexas - August 6, 2011

>> it was also intended to be funny.

heh

91. horn - August 6, 2011

Free lunches for truly poor children [make their parents get in line at 7am once a week] is fine. Food stamps for the elderly who can no longer work or the disabled are fine. Medicaid for people with lifelong illnesses like MS or Parkinson’s is fine.

Everything else, I agree with. Especially how shame needs to be brought back — and it can be. Just not overnite. But pretty soon we’d hit the tipping point where lazy leeches would decide it would be better to finish school and get a job than get up at 7am every day to get their Orange Card stamped and then sit in a cube from 9am-530pm everyday with a 30min lunch break for the rest of their life to continue sucking on the public teat.

Also, SS is not charity. If you paid into it your whole life, you deserve to get whatever the formula says. We just need to change the formula.

92. tps - August 6, 2011

Howabout instead of food stamps you get a a block of veggie prison loaf a day? Solid, gives you all your vitamins, and can be colored orange!

93. Vegan Dude - August 6, 2011

Howabout instead of food stamps you get a a block of veggie prison loaf a day?

As long as it contains 10% organic Arugula.

94. Mark in NJ - August 6, 2011

“intended to be funny”

good disclaimer — you don’t want to be responsible when your insta-lanche turns into the Ox-Bow Incident 2011

95. daveintexas - August 6, 2011

I’m not disclaiming a goddamn thing.

Cut them off. Before they suck the life out of us.

cell phones? Really?

96. lauraw - August 6, 2011

At my local grocery stores. Five of them, in a densely settled area of Connecticut. Who works there?

Leg-draggin’ cripples. Halfwits. Ancients in scooters. I have a tremendous respect for these folks. Enormous. They do what they have to do, in spite of all manner of handicaps. They are the folks I would ordinarily think of as charity cases, yet they’re not. I would give to them! Yet they make themselves useful and have their own.

On the other hand, we’re paying scads of healthy young people to stay home, ignore their children, and deal drugs.

DUH, people. Unsustainable situation.

But.

What the welfare cheats remove from the economy is NOTHING, compared to the damage that politicians do. By generally squashing industry, and by outright grift and siphoning, and the opportunity costs to all of us from their frontline taking advantage of regulatory changes (they are immune to insider trading laws, after all), and by how they are forever making up specific new rules to benefit their specific friends, that all costs all of us more money in thousands of little ways that compound over time.

For crying out loud. How many welfare families could have eaten for how many years, on just Pelosi’s jet budget for the last few years?

And then, there’s the Stimulus. Where we all get fucked for twenty years so that public employees and union members won’t have to ever really feel the recession the rest of us have been experiencing for the past three years.

The main fleecing is happening from the top. I get angry at the little fish that eat my lunch too. But let’s not forget about the big fish that is eating our whole future.

97. geoff - August 7, 2011

good disclaimer — you don’t want to be responsible when your insta-lanche turns into the Ox-Bow Incident 2011

WTF? Are you sober?

98. geoff - August 7, 2011

…because if you are, I’d vote to ban you right now, unless you can come up with an interpretation that isn’t heinous and irretrievably reprehensible.

And I don’t think you can.

I can’t believe you said something like that. I’m pretty much absolutely furious. Don’t come back.

99. Michael - August 7, 2011

Calm down, Geoff. You know that Mark is not a mean person.

Mark was making a joke. A subtle one, but not bad. See, he noticed me distancing myself from the extreme aspects of my post, when I felt obliged to explicity state that they were intended as humor, and he decided to poke me about it. I thought it was well done. The arcane historical reference was a hoot.

Like me, his humor tends to be offbeat.

100. Michael - August 7, 2011

Mark:

I have learned from sad experience on many occasions that if a joke needs to be explained, you lose.

101. geoff - August 7, 2011

I thought it was well done. The arcane historical reference was a hoot.

He wasn’t drawing a parallel between the frustration with the modern attitude towards entitlements and lynching of innocent folk? Really? Because it sure seemed like it to me.

And that’s unforgivable.

102. Michael - August 7, 2011

He wasn’t drawing a parallel between the frustration with the modern attitude towards entitlements and lynching of innocent folk?

I think he was making fun of me for crawfishing and covering my ass.

103. Michael - August 7, 2011

Seriously, Geoff, Mark is one of the few liberals you will encounter with a sense of humor and a semi-open mind. Look at Comment #30.

104. geoff - August 7, 2011

I’ll let him explain it to me.

105. Michael - August 7, 2011

I’ll explain Comment #30. Mark is actually mocking leftie tropes along with right wing extremism.

106. geoff - August 7, 2011

I didn’t have a problem with Comment #30.

107. Michael - August 7, 2011

Well, I didn’t have a problem with #94, and it was directed at me.

So, relax.

I have the bad habit of making jokes that fly way off the mark. It’s easy for me to see when someone else does it.

Stop and think.

Q. Is Mark retarded?

A. No.

Q. Does he have an offbeat sense of humor?

A. Yes.

Q. Was he really “drawing a parallel between the frustration with the modern attitude towards entitlements and lynching of innocent folk?”

A. No.

Long story short, Mark was directing an overly clever gibe at me. I thought it was funny.

108. Mark in NJ - August 7, 2011

Michael – Thank you. We reach.

Dave – You shouldn’t have to pay for anyone else’s cell phone (or land line). Phone service goes way beyond my definition of safety net — I don’t think we disagree on this.

Geoff – Michael has it exactly right. My original #30 was an attempt to respond in kind to a post I thought was outrageous and hilarious, and maybe to push it a little more. If no one thinks it’s funny, so be it, but it’s recognized as facetious, right?

Then, many of the comments in the insta-lanche made me think, “hey these guys think he’s serious” — so when I saw Michael’s comment about his intention, I imagined him, the lawyer, seeing the same, getting worried, and needing to issue a disclaimer. And Michael’s #39 made me think he’d be ok with another jab.

Regarding my choice of Ox-Bow…part of it, I admit, was to see who gets the reference. And my sense of the story isn’t that it’s simply about a lynching, it’s about what can happen when a riled-up mob acts hastily (and tragically) with the wrong information. So I guess I was operating on a more metaphorical level vs literally connecting the comments with the desire to hang a welfare cheat from a tree branch.

Trying to be funny via exaggeration and pushing the boundary.

My so-called sense humor gets me in trouble all the time — problem is, the people I hang around with think I’m funny (maybe that’s why I hang around with them) so I tend to pitch the gags at them regardless of whether they’re in the audience.

Do I misjudge and go too far sometimes? Yes, definitely.

Did I this time? I would have said No, but I feel terrible that you were so angered and offended by it. For saying something that induced that reaction in you, I truly apologize.

109. BrewFan - August 7, 2011

Stop and think.

Q. Is Mark retarded?

A. No.

Cite please.

110. Michael - August 7, 2011

Cite please

Look, Brew, I did not say he is a genius. Mark is obviously smart enough to learn how to turn on a computer and type, which suggests that he is not retarded and has sufficient intellect to absorb liberal indoctrination. In other words, he is smarter than a monkey.

111. BrewFan - August 7, 2011

has sufficient intellect to absorb liberal indoctrination
he is smarter than a monkey

Just so we’re clear, the first assertion has no dependency on the second assertion.

112. geoff - August 7, 2011

And my sense of the story isn’t that it’s simply about a lynching, it’s about what can happen when a riled-up mob acts hastily (and tragically) with the wrong information. So I guess I was operating on a more metaphorical level vs literally connecting the comments with the desire to hang a welfare cheat from a tree branch.

I understood the story reference, and I understood the metaphor. Let me rewrite it for clarity.

Original: good disclaimer — you don’t want to be responsible when your insta-lanche turns into the Ox-Bow Incident 2011

Rewritten: good disclaimer – you don’t want to be responsible when your instalanche incites a misguided lynching.

It’s a good thing Michael has a sense of humor, because I don’t find that funny.

113. lauraw - August 7, 2011

When liberals see conservatives getting angry about this or that issue and having an animated discussion about it, they always see ‘angry mob.’

Always. we’re such uncivilized dumb animals, easily whipped to mindless violence, you see.

Mark’s joke (well, bomb-throwing that he weaselly won’t own up to) says a lot of ugly things about HIM.

114. lauraw - August 7, 2011

From an article on Ace’s sidebar:

A general correction of the imbalance between wealth production and wealth redistribution is now a matter of basic necessity, not ideological preference.

The hardest obstacle to overcome will be the idea that anyone who challenges the prevailing consensus of the past 50 years is irrational and irresponsible. That is what is being said about the Tea Partiers. In fact, what is irrational and irresponsible is the assumption that we can go on as we are.

Hear, hear.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/janetdaley/8685945/If-we-are-to-survive-the-looming-catastrophe-we-need-to-face-the-truth.html

115. daveintexas - August 7, 2011

I really don’t understand what Mark gets out of poking his nose in here and crapping on the dining room table.

But I know I grew weary of it years ago.

Dude, if you’re not funny, don’t play with it. It’s not going to go well.

116. Russ from Winterset - August 7, 2011

I’m all for throwing around arcane movie references, especially when they’re from classics like The Ox-Bow Incident.

My problem with Mark’s comment is that a mob hanging innocent men who appeared to be guilty of cattle-rustling and murder is a whole shit-load different than taxpayers being annoyed at layabouts who sponge off the workers of society and don’t even have the common courtesy to feel gratitude.

It’s almost as if Mark didn’t actually watch the fucking movie, and is just repeating what he read in the IMDB dynopsis for it

117. Russ from Winterset - August 7, 2011

Dynopsis? That’s a synopsis where you fumblefinger the keyboard.

118. Russ from Winterset - August 7, 2011

I mean sure, if we want to play the “mangled analogy” game here, I would say that Mark coming here to comment and stir shit up is the equivalent to the Soviets rolling tanks into Hungary in 1956. Mark just wants to crush us and force us to accept his godless political state, and if we won’t agree he’s perfectly fine with all of us ending up lying dead in a trench with bullets in the back of our heads.

Why do you hate freedom, Mark?

119. lauraw - August 7, 2011

Mark thinks he ‘pushes the boundary’ with his edgy ‘humor,’ but there’s no clever formulation there. If some other people think he’s funny, it’s the same easy ‘clapper’ non-actually-funny non-humor as Margaret Cho. Just making offensive assumptions about people and getting claps off your coreligionists about it.

Back to the topic (though I think an important new topic would be why is it so important to us that others feel shame? But I digress).

I don’t think shame can ever actually come back to slacker douchedom until most people are actually supporting themselves. Then it comes about naturally. Shame is an acknowledgment that dependence and taking from others is bad, and a natural social reaction to the resentment and disapproval of others who are supporting your ass. We express shame when we feel bad about something, and especially when we want others to not kill us for being an asshole, lol.

On the street I used to live on, I was one of very few working people. Everybody else was on welfare. If 75% of those people were employed and knew that what was deducted from their checks was being given to the other 25%, I think you would see a different situation with the sense of entitlement that plagues these communities.

All these ideas and gimmicks are cute but there really is nothing we can do externally to help people out of the ghetto mindset except take their binky away.

So once again, Dave is absolutely correct.

120. Retired Geezer - August 7, 2011

slacker douchedom

OK that made me snort.

121. daveintexas - August 7, 2011

Nothing changes until you withdraw the tit.

122. Michael - August 7, 2011

People people people.

Once again — Mark was not attempting any kind of political statement, even a humorous one. Read in context, he was clearly making fun of ME and my “disclaimer,” which in turn was an obvious reaction to the anger in some of the comments after the instalanche and my concern that some may have not have realized that the Poverty Brand™ shtick was supposed to be a funny and absurd way to illustrate a serious point.

123. daveintexas - August 7, 2011

Also, here’s something I won’t ever need in my life.

Mark’s perspective.

124. Michael - August 7, 2011

And no, as usual Dave is not correct. Guilt is a learned reaction. Shame is deeply rooted in the human psyche and can be observed across all cultures. Welfare parasites are not shameless. They have simply been taught that their behavior is not shameful and, in fact, is expected. The point of my post is that we need to stop sending that message.

125. daveintexas - August 7, 2011

Here’s a behavior I don’t suffer from.

I don’t need assholes to like me.

126. lauraw - August 7, 2011

Michael, nobody on this thread- not even the ones who said “I agree with this!” – thinks you were actually making serious recommendations.

127. Michael - August 7, 2011

I will concede that the current crop of parasites is probably hopeless, but nothing will get better unless our politicians stop telling people all the stuff that that they are “entitled” to.

128. daveintexas - August 7, 2011

>> Guilt is a learned reaction

Oh. Really.

God remits guilt to no one unless at the same time he humbles him in all things and makes him submissive to the vicar, the priest.

A learned reaction. Unless one does not become humble.

129. Michael - August 7, 2011

I suppose so, Laura. I was just concerned at the anger my post provoked which was directed at poor people. Fact is, we made them that way!

Some folks seemed to be missing that point.

130. Michael - August 7, 2011

Dave, you are now talking about “guilt” in the legal sense, which is totally off point.

Yes, you remain guilty in the eyes of God unless you become humble. Which, by the way, results from being ASHAMED OF YOURSELF and moved to repentance. Duh.

131. daveintexas - August 7, 2011

I am the meanest motherfuckin Baptist ever.

hahahahahahaha

132. lauraw - August 7, 2011

I was just concerned at the anger my post provoked which was directed at poor people.

Michael, I personally murdered three poor families because of this comments thread. Seventeen people, Mike. Ffft. GONE.

We all only have one last bill to pay for each of them.

It felt great and I wanted to thank you for giving me the idea.

133. daveintexas - August 7, 2011

I kicked a poor person in the balls this morning at church.

Probably wouldn’t have done that if I hadn’t read this stuff.

134. Michael - August 7, 2011

Put another way, I think everybody is ashamed about something. In some communities, you might be ashamed because your shoes are not cool enough, you haven’t knocked up enough girls, or you haven’t killed a cop.

Regardless, shame is hard-wired in our head. It results from the fact that we are corrupt and fallen human beings. God’s law tells us what we should be ashamed about, and why we need to repent.

135. Michael - August 7, 2011

Sheesh. I swear I will never defend Mark again.

Too bad. He’s the only libtard who shows up here so we can make fun of him.

136. lauraw - August 7, 2011

SIGH. Don’t be that way.

And don’ worry Hon, Mark will be back to cattily call us bad people again someday.

137. daveintexas - August 7, 2011

Michael, look I admire your willingness to be nice and all. I do respect that, it’s kind.

But Mark’s a dick. Long track record of “dick”. Swamp through that “Africa” song crap he put down.

Sheesh.

138. Russ from Winterset - August 7, 2011

I don’t think Mark’s a dick, but I respect Dave’s right to think so. I also fail to see his appeal to Michael.

I just think that Mark is a kneejerk leftist who spouts off “facts” and makes very strained analogies to things that don’t really relate to the discussions at hand.

He’s like a Cedarford who likes Stalin & Lenin instead of Hitler & Franco.

139. daveintexas - August 7, 2011

I’ll revise and extend. Dickish behavior.

Hell, I’m guilty of that myself, so yeah.

140. Michael - August 7, 2011

Heh. You may recall that I also liked Cedarford.

141. Russ from Winterset - August 7, 2011

No, you should stick with “Mark is a dick”. Just because I don’t say that, doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t say it.

I trust your judgement, even though I don’t feel motivated enough to go there myself.

Actually, Dave, I think you have more regard for Mark than I do. I don’t think he’s a dick. I think he’s a huge waste of our time. I’d rather discuss intestinal parasites threatening Geezer’s horsies than talk about Mark, for God’s sake.

142. Russ from Winterset - August 7, 2011

I know you liked Cedarford. And the drunken bi-polar lesbian chick. And now you like Mark. Pattern, anyone?

143. daveintexas - August 7, 2011

>> I think he’s a huge waste of our time.

I think we’re a huge waste of his time, hence my confusion about his coming back to the well.

144. daveintexas - August 7, 2011

>> Pattern, anyone?

HAHAHAHAHA.

Luthern charity.

145. Michael - August 7, 2011

Either that or I am just too insecure to offend anyone.

146. lauraw - August 7, 2011

*bursts out laughing*

147. Cathy - August 7, 2011

I enjoyed reading the latest in this thread.

I shot y’all just to watch you die.

Intermission. Time for more ice tea.

148. lauraw - August 7, 2011

*wrestles Cathy to the ground*

*accidentally sniffs her armpit, dies instantly*

*body bloats up in the Texas heat like a frog fulla helium*

*Michael comes out of the Batcave to advise her on how to clean up*

149. BrewFan - August 7, 2011

He’s like a Cedarford who likes Stalin & Lenin instead of Hitler & Franco.

Hahaha! Nicely done, Russ. The only problem is that I’m pretty sure that asshat self-googles and will be showing up at some point. Then I’m going to hate you.

150. Anonymous - August 7, 2011

OMG. The only thing this idiot left out was the gas concentration camps, gas chambers, incinerators, and mass graves.

151. Mitchell - August 7, 2011

^Those parts get implemented in Phase 2.

152. daveintexas - August 7, 2011

hey, lynching innocents, hanging people, that’s pretty funny right there.

Nice call Mark. I’m totally locked in to your sense of awkward humor.

153. Cathy - August 7, 2011

*shovels up putrid pile formerly known as Humpy into black garbage bag*

*throws bag into trunk and waits until dark*

*drives car to green space in nearby golf course*

*unloads bag to spot behind bushes and dumps slimy contents onto ground*

*runs back to car before pack of coyotes show up*

*dumps bag in dumpster behind restaurant 7 miles from house*

154. lauraw's slushy corpse - August 7, 2011

You’ve done this before.

155. Michael - August 7, 2011

^

That’s why I try not to piss her off too much.

156. Russ from Winterset - August 7, 2011

Did you cut off her head & pour salt into the wound? The first rule of superhuman killer movies is that if you don’t go to EXTREMES to chop up the body, the killer will just come right back for a sequel.

Guar-on-teed.

157. daveintexas - August 7, 2011

you’re not going to persuade him you know.

158. David Caruso's Sunglasses - August 7, 2011

Well, what do we have here? A liquified pool of human goo? Get me a DNA sample & run it through COTUS, and then get that lump over there by the ball washer back to the lab. If I’m not mistaken, (removes glasses dramatically) it’s a hump, a hump, a lovely lady lump…..

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
We won’t get fooled again!

159. David Caruso's Sunglasses - August 7, 2011

“Either that or I am just too insecure to offend anyone.”

OK, when did we get the SECOND commenter named Michael with the batman avatar? Because this is another person altogether, right?

160. Michael - August 7, 2011

you’re not going to persuade him you know.

If you are still talking about Mark, yes, I know.

161. geoff - August 7, 2011

hey, lynching innocents, hanging people, that’s pretty funny right there.

…I don’t care who you are.

I’m reminded of the scene from Quest for Fire when the rock falls on the caveman’s head. He starts bleeding profusely, whereupon his companion starts laughing uproariously. Eventually he joins in himself.

I guess the rule is that it’s funnier if the caveman is a conservative.

162. Patton - August 7, 2011

Neither I nor anybody with whom I’ve share the original rant (and there are a lot of them) thought there was anything fake about its intent. Some of the specifics? Yeah, they were colorful, but additive.

The thing is, specific entitlements aren’t themselves the problem – it’s the culture of entitlement. (I’m still enraged after reading lauraw’s piece about the grifters in the rain).

Sadly, now that we’re long past the societal tipping point, where all the wrong people have been bribed by our legislative overlords, progress along these lines will be hard, if not impossible. But damn, what a fine set of ideas.

163. Pride And Prejudice | Wizbang - August 8, 2011

[...] | Posted by Jay TeaOver the weekend, my colleague Rick wrote about a rather modest proposal to restore the notion of “shame” to those who depend on public welfare.  It’s an interesting notion, and the debates over it have been most entertaining and [...]

164. Retired Geezer - August 8, 2011

In a totally unrelated NSFW* post, It’s time for the yearly <a href="http://wizbangpop.com/2011/08/07/major-league-wtf-chinese-town-begins-breast-touching-festival/"Breast Touching Festival in China.

*Happy boy touching Happy girl

165. Retired Geezer - August 8, 2011
166. Mark in NJ - August 8, 2011

Geoff – Do you watch Dr Strangelove and think Kubrick is heinous and irretrievably reprehensible because you seriously believe he thinks the end of the world is funny? I’m pretty sure you recognize it as satire.

I’m not comparing the quality of my material to Kubrick’s, but do you really think, based on my Ox-Bow allusion, that I believe lynching an innocent person would be funny? That’s the mother of all strawmen.

I stand by my previous apology, but I still think your reduction (“misguided lynching”) misses the main element of what the Ox-Bow story’s about, which is showing how a mob mentality can take over and transcend the thoughts/intentions/behaviors of otherwise decent men. The hangings themselves give the story tragic power, but I believe the author’s main interest is how/why the mob-think caused these guys to do what they’d never have done on their own. The guilt-ridden suicides at the end reinforce the point. Reducing it to a lynching is like saying Oedipus Rex is about a guy who blinded himself.

And in #161, in moving from Ox-Bow to Quest for Fire, you’ve somehow twisted the analogy so that the shameless welfare cheat is no longer the innocent victim, now it’s the conservative caveman.

Dave – my motivation for nosing around here is to read Geoff’s stuff and to see what Michael has posted. And, periodically, I jump into the Comments pit because I like the engagement and I learn a lot by trying to write persuasively to an audience that’s mostly hostile to what I’m trying to say. I know I regularly get my underpants pulled over my head and then I’m put in the trash can, but that goes with the territory.

Regarding dick vs dickish behavior, I’d say option 2, though I’m biased. But it’s not all dickish — I don’t keep count but I bet the record shows the majority of my comments contain non-needling info that I thought at the time might actually be interesting.

167. Mark in NJ - August 8, 2011

I gotta clarify something I said in the above comment before I get reamed…by saying I learn a lot from writing here, I don’t mean to imply I’m “using you” to further my education.

I know I have only words to go on, I don’t know ayone here but Geoff, but I genuinely like the community of people on Michael’s site. It’s life-affirming the way you-all care about each other.

I hate liberal blogs, and most conservative blogs wouldn’t even give me a chance to speak. So, thanks.

And, hey, if we met outside of the political noise, and you didn’t know I was Mark in NJ, you might be surprised that you didn’t hate me either.

168. Russ from Winterset - August 8, 2011

So, in your world, do people routinely get liquored up and start saying “Hey, let’s impose fiscal restraint on those representatives in Washington!”?

And when they sober up, do they all tell themselves “Wow, I can’t believe I asked government to live within its means. I must have been SUPER drunk last night.”?

169. Russ from Winterset - August 8, 2011

If you’re simply looking for suggestions on how to interact with “people like us”, you might try this one:

Stop assuming that conservatives asking for fiscal restraint is analagous to lynching innocent people. You’re coming into “our” house & taking a dump on the coffee table right away. Don’t expect us to all start clapping & telling you how great you are.

170. Retired Geezer - August 8, 2011

guilt-ridden suicides

Clarification needed, I only remember the one dude killing himself at the end, was there more?

It’s been a while since I saw the movie (never read the book).

171. Cathy - August 8, 2011

Conservatives come in lots of packages. We got gun-racks, eee-van-gelicals, atheists, conspiracy theorists, bean counters, business owners, factory workers, LEGAL immigrants, blue-bloods, super religious or hell-raisers, every color skin you can possibly imagine whether tattoos or not, super-college edumicated, barely high school grads, military, civilians, Log-Cabins, social conservatives, pro-lifers, pro-abortion peeps, party animals, pot-smokin’ libertarians, old guard Repubs, Independents, and even some Democrats… Our differences can be vast.

But I respect and value every single one of these folks IF we all are in agreement on a few core principles of limited government, fiscal responsibility, rule of law, accountability, AND agree that together as a conservative group our PRIMARY EFFORT is to resist and fight our government’s continued power-grabbing and pocket-robbing.

172. Mark in NJ - August 8, 2011

Russ – that’s not my expectation.

Geezer – I based that on the novel (have only seen parts of the movie) but my recollection is the son who gets locked out by his hard-ass dad hangs himself and then the father kills himself too. Could be wrong — it’s been many yrs.

173. Cathy - August 8, 2011

…And, hey, if we met outside of the political noise, and you didn’t know I was Mark in NJ, you might be surprised that you didn’t hate me either.

Mark, I won’t speak for anyone else here. I may totally hate what you say. I might even hate how I feel about it when you puke up your liberal crap and try to push off on me as logic or fact. But I will never hate you.

Maybe you project hatred, but I don’t and won’t.

Fin.

174. Retired Geezer - August 8, 2011

But I respect and value every single one of these folks IF we all are in agreement on a few core principles of limited government, fiscal responsibility, rule of law, accountability, AND agree that together as a conservative group our PRIMARY EFFORT is to resist and fight our government’s continued power-grabbing and pocket-robbing.

That was so good I repeated it.

175. daveintexas - August 8, 2011

Oh please. Lynching joke? Hardee har har har.

Only thing funnier is your lame crawfishing.

Seriously Mark, go fuck yourself. And your “because I like the engagement and I learn a lot by trying to write persuasively to an audience that’s mostly hostile to what I’m trying to say.”

Here’s a tip you fucking jerk. Calling people who engage in the democratic process “a lynch mob” is not terribly persuasive. You kinda failed at the whole “ooo.. I need to engage with them” thingy. Engage your head with your sphincter.

Seriously, go away asshole.

176. Russ from Winterset - August 8, 2011

So you don’t “expect” us to love you. I guess that means you’re going to keep up the “bloodthirsty lynch mob” jokes, right?

The best thing about being a liberal in America? Conservatives are NEVER going to act as badly to you as you say they are. NEVER. Of course, we will reserve the right to tell you to go pound sand up your ass.

177. Michael - August 8, 2011

I like pie.

178. Michael - August 8, 2011

Apple pie used to be my favorite fruit pie, until I had fresh blueberry pie in Maine after a moron meatup. Then there’s pecan pie and chocolate pie.

I am now conflicted about this whole subject.

179. sandy burger - August 8, 2011

Shame is dead.

It’s still there. It’s just misdirected and denied. They’re already full of shame. Their problem is, they don’t know why they’re ashamed.

Our prisons are populated by young men who are filled with shame. Shame is the elephant in the living room in the slum thug’s psychology. Shame is the reason for the constant need for “respect”, and the violent rage that “disrespect” calls for. But they can’t figure out what, aside from the obvious and immediate, they’re really ashamed of.

180. sandy burger - August 8, 2011

Pie is just cake that didn’t apply itself.

181. Cathy - August 8, 2011

Really like what you have said about shame here, Sandy.

You nailed it.

182. Michael - August 8, 2011

But they can’t figure out what, aside from the obvious and immediate, they’re really ashamed of.

Right on target, Ms. Sandy. It seems weird to us, but we have actually created citizens who can’t figure out that:

1. My women think I am useless and a loser as a husband and father.
2. My children don’t know who I am.
3. My life is not only purposeless, but destructive.

183. Michael - August 8, 2011

Pie is just cake that didn’t apply itself.

Fuck you, bitch! Those are fighting words around here.

Cake is for pussies.

184. Marie-Antoinette - August 8, 2011

Cake is for pussies.

and peasants, too!

185. Retired Geezer - August 8, 2011

Our prisons are populated by young men who are filled with shame. Shame is the elephant in the living room in the slum thug’s psychology. Shame is the reason for the constant need for “respect”, and the violent rage that “disrespect” calls for.

Yeah, that’s it in a nutshell.
(Somehow I missed Sandy’s comment until Michael referenced it.)

186. AC - August 10, 2011

shame is the most powerful human motivator

187. Cathy - August 10, 2011

Heard on Rush today about the Mayor of Philadelphia, Michael Nutter. He clearly used shame to call out young people in his community who need some learning…

Good stuff! to the story.

Here’s a taste of what Nutter said:

“If you walk into somebody’s office with your hair uncombed and a pick in the back, and your shoes untied, and your pants half down, tattoos up and down your arms and on your neck, and you wonder why somebody won’t hire you? They don’t hire you ‘cause you look like you’re crazy,” the mayor angrily said to the congregation about the youth.”

Guy sounds conservative.

188. Cathy - August 11, 2011

Here is the video on Mayor Michael Nutter.

189. lauraw - August 12, 2011

Full vid here, Cathy. He starts to get to his point around 9:00, if you want to skip ahead.

It’s electrifying.

He does not address the whole welfare thing that we consider the root cause of all this lawlessness, of course.

But it’s still refreshing to see someone even publicly acknowledge the symptoms.

190. lauraw - August 12, 2011

191. Cathy - August 12, 2011

Thanks, Laura.

For me it is clear that he turns the issue of their situation back on them and their choices AND uses shame and ridicule successfully.

192. Russ from Winterset - August 12, 2011

I’ve watched that video twice now, and for the life of me, I’ve got one question nagging me.

Who’s the white RACIST running the teleprompter that Nutter was reading all that RACIST stuff from?

193. Cathy - August 12, 2011

^ Hahahahaha!

194. lauraw - August 12, 2011

Yeah, that’s normal human stuff Russ. Byproduct of an insulated community, that you can’t say anything bad about them, but they can.

I can observe and give voice to things I see wrong within my own family, but you better STFU and clear off before you even THINK of talking shit about one of mine.

It just sucks for everyone that the same ethos applies to an entire ethnicity that has purposefully sequestered itself. And of course, as reading the youtube comments to that video demonstrates, separationist stupidity abounds among some white folks yet as well.

This racial crap, the stain of unspeakably evil past deeds and ignorance, will be with us forever, just like the ancient enmities in Europe.

But I have hope that at least economically and therefore socially, things will improve somewhat within my lifetime, and not backslide the way it has in the last 20 years.

Everybody points at the typical outcome of kids who were raised badly as also being bad, and assumes there’s no end to that cycle; but there is also an outcome where some kids think to themselves even as children, “What’s happening to me is wrong. I will never raise my children this way.” I know a couple of people like that.

I’m hoping these hardy souls feel called to return someday to their place of torment, and teach.

The fact that the NAACP commended this mayor instead of condemning him, is proof to me that there is an undercurrent of disapproval in the black community, and a desire to set things to right, and a willingness to see their children do well in this country, instead of preserving some idiotic, utterly suicidal, ghetto ‘authenticity.’

There’s hope there.

195. Cathy - August 12, 2011

Laura, I believe we have reached a tipping point.

There is hope.

196. ECONOMIC REFORM IDEAS - August 14, 2011

[...] [...]

197. Cathy - August 23, 2011

This article is worth the time. We much stop this much… *lol*

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/08/obama_baits_the_dependency_trap.html


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