Carl Sagan Remix September 28, 2009
Posted by Michael in Music, Science.trackback
Give this a try — it is oddly affecting. (Stephen Hawking also appears.)
Vodpod videos no longer available.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.
How many people think like that?
It is more religion than science.
I always liked Carl Sagan. He was naturally appealing to every kid who, like me, was a sci-fi junkie. His enthusiasm for big scientific subjects was infectious, and his ability to make complex topics accessible was remarkable.
I still remember watching a show where he pointed out that the DNA of people and of trees are almost the same. The variation of tree DNA that make trees different from us is negligible.
His point being — all living things are literally related.
UPDATED:
I’m going to swipe a quote from Dave in the comments — the opening verses of Psalm 19:
The heavens declare the glory of God,
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
There is no speech or language
where their voice is not heard.
Their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the end of the world.
Christian theologians refer to this as the Doctrine of Natural Revelation, and Psalm 19 is the proof text.
Comments
Sorry comments are closed for this entry
I for one expect “billions and billions” of comments on this poat.
>> The variation of tree DNA that make trees different from us is negligible.
So that’s why I get wood?
Good to know.
>>>So that’s why I get wood?
Sagan would say yes. Meaning, trees are incredibly like us. They eat, they breathe, they grow and die, they have sex and reproduce.
Getting a twitchy LGF kind of feeling right now. Makes me want to shut my ears and go ‘lalalalalalalalalala’ until it goes away. Or, until somebody does something racist, or boils a frog. NTTAWWT.
Love the song, though.
>>>Getting a twitchy LGF kind of feeling right now.
That’s it, Mac. I’m fed up with your reactionary bullshit.
YOU’RE BANNED!!!
*Michael looks around for banhammer, which got misplaced when WP was booted*
Carl Sagan was a pot-smoking, anti-theist hippy who wanted to save Martian microbes from the ravages of human beings.
He was smart, though.
>> Carl Sagan was a pot-smoking, anti-theist hippy
He was a Luthern?
I did not know that.
I saw that video somewhere else today, and passed over it. But after seeing it here, I thought, well, it must have some merit.
I was wrong.
Don’t ban me bro!
He was a Luthern?
He claimed later in life, after making a career out of bashing believers, that he was ‘agnostic’. Oh wait…
OK, Dave, OK. You asked for it.
You too, Deb.
You are both right-wing anti-science religious nutjobs, and I have had my fill of you.
YOU ARE BANNED!!!
*frickin’ banhammer must be around here somewhere*
Don’t toss me in that briarpatch, Bro’ Michael!!
You’re on probation, Brad. I’m cutting you some slack because you are Army.
**flips off Dave and Deb**
Hah! Take that, suckers!
Carl who?
I am currently talking to somebody who thinks OJ was innocent.
No, really.
No…really.
Good thing I’m banned, or I’d have to explain this.
The great thing about Carl Sagan is that he had a gift for pointing out the relatedness of everything, whether it was species or galaxies. He may have been a pot-smoking atheist, but he was really drawing attention to the glory of God.
Good thing I’m banned, or I’d have to explain this.
That’s right, you are history dude. So shut the fuck up until I find my banhammer.
*Michael looks under couch, heads for garage*
MIchael – Unfortunately, I have to agree with you that Sagan drawing attention to the glory of God. It was shows like Sagan’s that brought me to the belief that creation wasn’t random.
Cosmos was teh bomb when I was a kid. We were glued to the set every night it came on.
But, if’n you want interconnectedness and relatedness nobody tops James Burke’s Connections.
The heavens declare the glory of God,
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
There is no speech or language
where their voice is not heard.
Their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the end of the world.
It was shows like Sagan’s that brought me to the belief that creation wasn’t random.
I’m glad to hear that because his intent was just the opposite.
“The Cosmos is all that is or ever was or ever will be” – Carl Sagan, 1981 Humanist of the Year
kinda my point there with the 19th Brew.
The skies do all the talkin that matters.
ok, I’m done. Nice post, Michael. I’m sure if Carl were alive today the ELCA would be happy to ordain him.
*BrewFan runs. Runs like the wind!
I read you loud and clear my Texas brother.
Dave:
I thought of that Psalm when I posted the video, and toyed with the idea of quoting it. But I didn’t want the post to sound preachy.
Maybe I should have.
Michael, I am sick of your Zionist right–wing agenda of Luthernist dogma keeping the man down with its anti-science Lutheran Lutheranism. Don’t let the ban hit you on the butt as you get banned out the door.
Lutheran.
And anybody making fun of Mr. Dr. Sagan going WHOOT will also be banned!
In the video, Sagan says:
You won’t find a Christian theologian anywhere who disagrees with any of that.
Really, just the point that Dave was making.
Michael, I am sick of your Zionist right–wing agenda of Luthernist dogma keeping the man down with its anti-science Lutheran Lutheranism.
Mac, when I find my banhammer, you are going to get whopped hard for talking smack to me. Punk.
* banhammer not in garage — Michael heads for attic*
every atom in our bodies came from the stars
try wrapping your head around that
Perhaps Sagan just found beauty and mystery in the cosmos. It certainly has that.
>>>Perhaps Sagan just found beauty and mystery in the cosmos.
Yeah, but apparently he missed the point.
Don’t matter. The point gets made anyhow.
Let’s not get started on the Doctrine of Election.
I really just don’t have the energy to cock-slap a Calvinist like Brewfan on this subject again.
Ffffft.
Buncha incense-burning Godbags in here.
.
.
.
.
.
*sacrifices a live chicken to the Good Garden Faeries*
We are stardust, we are golden.
Just to add fuel to the fire, today is the Catholic feast of the Archangels, and they can kick all y’alls ass.
every atom in our bodies came from the stars
try wrapping your head around that
The thing that amazes me is that everything you see is the result of a bunch of photons traveling 93 million miles from the sun, and bouncing off an object into your eyeball. At night it’s even more amazing, since it has to bounce off the moon first.
you gonna eat dat chicken?
A conversation between Carl Sagan and the Cosmos:
Cosmos: Carl, you are a meaningless speck of matter and energy.
Sagan: AH KNOW MAH RIGHTS!!!
The thing that amazes me is that everything you see is the result of a bunch of photons traveling 93 million miles from the sun
It’s like you don’t actually perceive real matter, just reflected energy.
Maybe you are not even real, Geoff. Maybe you are just an idea in my head, a series of electro-chemical reactions.
*Twilight Zone music*
The matrix is kinda hard to explain.
I’m gonna need a white board.
Dave, you only exist in my head.
So shut the fuck up with your lame jokes.
I actually think you are more interesting than Carl Sagan.
I’m gonna need a white board.
Thanks, Dave. I hear it’s good to irrigate my sinuses with warm coffee every now and then.
I actually think you are more interesting than Carl Sagan.
That’s because I think you think I am more interesting than Carl Sagan.
I’m gonna need a white board.
You could’ve just as easily requested a blackboard. Racist.
As for the bannhammer, I mis-stepped coming down a ladder and accidentally “fell” on it, iykwimaityd. I’m going to need help with the extraction. Volunteers?
Sagan: AH KNOW MAH RIGHTS!!!
God invents the universe:
“Here, hold my beer. I’m gonna try sumpin'”
I’m going to need help with the extraction. Volunteers?
Just feed him some Taco Bell and start running.
I often pray to the God of Parking Spaces on my way to the office. Seems to pay off.
“Here, hold my beer. I’m gonna try sumpin’”
God gets hammered and invents the liberal:
“Hey ya’ll … Watch this!”
>> I often pray to the God of Parking Spaces on my way to the office. Seems to pay off.
El-Parral-el?
I’m LCMS (runs away).
Mormon Godbag alert:
“yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator.”
Alma 30:44
I have a crush / man-crush on each and every last one of you right now.
Seriously. Do you know how long I assumed that I was the only kid on the face of the planet that sat around with my parents watching Cosmos and Connections re-runs on PBS?
And this. THIS.
“The great thing about Carl Sagan is that he had a gift for pointing out the relatedness of everything, whether it was species or galaxies. He may have been a pot-smoking atheist, but he was really drawing attention to the glory of God.”
It is like you are saying what I am thinking before I am even typing it! I loved Carl Sagan so much, I prayed for him so hard after he died…
This made my morning. AWESOME.
“El-Parral-el?”
Yesuanleft.
And, if we REALLY want to play this game…I’ll raise you something with actual language content warning.
(srsly)
*watches Sagan remix vid again*
*reads thread*
*watches vid @#56*
*sniggers*
The eyes of all look upon you, O Lord, and you give them their meat in due season… you open your hands and satisfy the desire of every living thing! *
*Looks through recipes for chicken for tonight’s supper*
I lift up my eyes to the hills — where does my help come from? My help comes from the Lord, the Maker of heaven and earth.
Love you morons!
We love you too.
And what I’m sending you is going to smell so much worse than what you sent me, kind lady!
I’m wearing it right now. Lovely. Thank you!
Thank Michael. He’s the giver.
He WISELY bought me some too.
BTW — been reading my Water Gardens book.
Just hope we are ‘worthy’ of your lovelies.
Thanks Sweetie!
Morons are on Ace’s site.
Here, we’re loving referred to as…
…
…?
I’ll be sending down some other items as they come out of the pond before we close it down in a few weeks.
How many water bowls are you doing? One or two?
the pond is about to be CLOSED FOR BUSINESS
We close down the filter pond and move the pump hose into the main pond so it doesn’t freeze and cover it up with a hoop house for the Winter.
The pond will close in fifteen minutes.
Please make your final selections and bring all purchases immediately to the pond-front for checkout.
As a reminder, the pond will open for business again in the spring.
We thank you for your business.
I repeat: The pond will close in fifteen minutes.
I always wished he would have described life here as “star shit” …but thats just me.
Nobody needs a frozen pump hose.
Catholics do. (Or should, at least). The word “Catholic” itself means “universal.” And really all Christians, as you guys have already pointed out.
It is weird how so much of what he said just seems to further demonstrate the existence of God, but he did seem quite opposed to the idea of God. He must have had some odd personal bias or stumbling block.
I know he also threw himself into quite a hysterical panic that we would be destroying ourselves with nuclear war. In fact I think that was part of the motivation for him to make this show Cosmos. This panic probably didn’t help him come to terms with the idea of God.
Hey Laura, guess what last Saturday was.
She forgot your birthday again?
SHIT!!!
Well, at least you’re not married to a girl who gets all obsessed about special dates…
Well it wasn’t the autumnal equinox.
What could it be, what could it be?
Eleven years of wedded bliss.
Scott, consider yourself blessed and move on.
laura, are you expecting a hard frost?
We will have light frost tomorrow, so I reckon you are in for it.
frost? already?
(congrats laura and scott. I’m glad you dint kill each other yet)
I better check the weather forecast. That would mean I have a lot of plants to bring in tonight.
I get no love. None.
Frosty always creeped me out.
And the fat fucker never brought me any presents.
So fuck him with a corn-cob pipe.
Eleven years is fantastic! Congratulations!
Thanks guys. I’m glad to say we are very much in love.
Even if we generally ignore significant dates on the calendar. That crap just doesn’t matter to either one of us.
*looks at wedding picture on computer desk*
*picks it up and really looks at it*
Shit, we’re gettin’ old
Nice dress, though
It’s not the years you know,
…
ok it’s pretty much the years actually.
Eleven years? Pshaw. You’re just getting started. Congrats on making it through the introductory phase.
I’m glad to say we are very much in love.
Huh?
The key to a successful marriage is stubbornness. Both sides gotta be too stubborn to quit, because if you quit the other party gets to say “I TOLD YOU SO!”
Man, I should be charging you people for these pearls of wisdom.
Another key to a successful marriage is that both sides have to think it’s funny when the other party farts. Otherwise, the marriage is doomed.
My advice to you single people out there — don’t even think about getting serious with someone until you have ripped off a noteworthy fart in their presence and gauged the reaction.
You guys can start hitting my PayPal account any time to compensate me for this.
Another tip; a pair should never go to bed angry, unless of the two of you, you are the light sleeper. Then go ahead and get your rest. You’ll be in a better position to deal with this shit conclusively at 3 am.
CONCLUSIVELY.
4) Always be willing to offer unsolicited praise to your husband or wife at any time, when they do something to deserve it. Unsolicited complaints however should be limited to the 3 am hour. Your spouse will be unable to mentally process more than one at this time, so pick a really good one.
Tell him he forgot to take out the trash at 3am. Say it times.
Watch the fun.
*nudge*
*nudge, nudge*
You awake?
I’m really upset and I need to talk to you.
NOW.
3 times I meant.
I find that travleing a lot has helped.
congrats, you two.
Turn out the lights, and whisper “come here baby”.
To the dog.
*furiously taking notes*
Spending a ton of time on the blogs chatting with anonyomous people for all over the country is amazingly good for a marriage.
gotta go now. bb tomorrow night.
When he rolls over and rubs your fanny while you’re just waking up, say, “Raoul? Make sure his briefcase is gone.”
Cya wiser
Commenters
This is GOLD, Peel, GOLD.
Nobody else is gonna tell you this stuff.
CONCLUSIVELY.
I hate to say this, but one thing I learned from Dave is that it’s beneficial for a marriage if both parties own a gun. Tends to keep the discussion under control.
Detente.
Frankly I think that’s overrated, but YMMV.
OH OH… it’s important your kids know you’re in their corner in the really stressful times of their young lives, so if you disagree with your spouse on the matter, you really should say so in front of the kids. Always consider the options.
Good point, Dave. Get the kids involved on your side. That gives you major leverage.
“I find that traveling a lot has helped”
Wiserbud, just out of curiosity, do you have any neighbors that your dog doesn’t bark at?
Wiserbud, just out of curiosity, do you have any neighbors that your dog doesn’t bark at?
BWAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
(Scott, go buy your wife something nice. Right now, the last romantic gift she got came from me. Flowers always work.)
Heard this somewhere: “Keep his balls empty and his stomach full.”
That was a romantic gift?
OK, I don’t anyone to get the wrong impression. I am not randomly sending romantic gifts to Laura. Here’s what happened:
1. Laura offered waterlily tubers, an offer we accepted.
2. I wanted to send Laura a thank-you gift. I solicited ideas from Cathy.
3. Cathy and Laura had previously discussed fragrances, and Cathy had an idea for a perfume Laura would really like (Simply by Clinique; and according to Cathy it’s gotta be the eau de parfum rather than the cologne for some reason). Cathy was low on this stuff herself and wanted me to get another bottle for her.
4. I went to Amazon.com and ordered Simply for Cathy and Laura.
That wasn’t her.
Balls empty is the only romantic gift a guy wants.
No, I meant that I thought you were saying I smelled bad.
It really hurt my feelings, getting that perfume.
I cried for an hour.
That was a romantic gift?
Yeah, maybe I’m old-fashioned, but the way I grew up, buying perfume for a girl is considered romantic. I figured it was OK because of the prior conversation and it was kind of a joint gift from Cathy and me.
* cancels Victoria’s Secret order
No, I meant that I thought you were saying I smelled bad.
Oh hell no. I did not mean that. You do not smell bad at all.
Well, not until you’ve been dancing for awhile and work up a sweat.
I like blue Dave.
Come to think of it, maybe that’s why Cathy specified eau de parfum rather than cologne, because it lasts longer, and Cathy was downwind of the dance floor when Laura was sweatin’ like migrant labor in the bean fields.
Blue would look good on you Scott.
If I was rank, it was only because your wife pinned my arm behind my back and made me harvest 1/2 acre of mint spears for her sick, out-of-control mojito habit.
she has a problem, I’m just sayin’
We have no daughters to sell to you.
Thank you, come again.
>>>Blue would look good on you Scott.
True dat.
I also noticed that Scott has those dreamy come-hither sexy eyes that are irresistible.
To women.
I’m still listening to that Carl Sagan remix video. It’s really appealing to me.
“The surface of the Earth is the shore of the Cosmic Ocean.”
How fucking profound.
You only follow in the footsteps of like the last five hundred computer games ever published.
EMBRACE ETERNITY!
…you flipping idiots.
Hi Megan! How are you doing?
I think Megan is the last five hundred computer games ever published and she’s jealous.
You only follow in the footsteps of like the last five hundred computer games ever published.
Save for the fact that Carl Sagan preceded all of those computer games.
Either that, or she’s too young to have ever read Broca’s Brain.
were you guys talking about frost and S&L’s marriage in the same comment block…..intentionally?
geoff, have you commented on the death of the hockey stick somewhere? That sh*t is right up your avenue….
geoff, have you commented on the death of the hockey stick somewhere?
The problem is that it’s too far up my alley. I don’t do climate modeling, but I could, so I don’t feel like I can comment on any of that until I get into it at a professional level.
Which I have no intention of doing.
“Professional” only means you’re getting paid for it.
dont get your triangles in a wad….just thought you may have some interesting comments on the most graph-tastic poly-stat intense subject to hit the nets since unemployment vs tarp projections by Team44 is all. 😉
geoff: “Save for the fact that Carl Sagan preceded all of those computer games”
Whiff. This post didn’t.
And hi, Butters. 🙂 Not too badly, all things considered, thanks. You?
Butters
That never fails to make me laugh! Hi Megan *waves*
Whiff. This post didn’t.
You’re kidding. That’s the direction you’re going to go? A tribute to Carl Sagan isn’t worthy because the same points he made have been made since in computer games? And because the aforementioned tribute came after those computer games?
Stuff and nonsense. Without the stuff.
Not too badly, all things considered, thanks. You?
I’m just fine, Megan. My banana trees are bigger than Dave’s, and my Flag Counter is more impressive than the one at The Hostages, so those are daily sources of petty vindictive joy.
Glad you dropped by again. Searching on your IP address reveals that you were last here in May. Don’t be a stranger.
I still venerate you for the epic bitch fight with bbeck at AOSHQ years ago. That was an awesome beatdown you delivered. That’s when I first learned to fear you and love you. Then, IIRC, Laura recruited you to intervene in a religious thread here, and you cock-slapped me about some technical error I had made when discussing the Passion Narrative. I was pretty impressed by how well you know your Bible.
Some of you may not know Megan from the old days, so let me introduce you to her. According to Megan, she is simultaneously:
1. A high-level strategist for the Republican Party who personally knows every influential conservative in D.C.
2. Some kind of ninja assassin with many kills to her credit, who is now being hunted by intelligence agencies around the world seeking retribution.
3. A cancer patient, bald and wasted away from the chemo and radiation therapy, who is on the brink of death. In fact, she should be dead by now, based on the last medical report I read.
4. An aging lesbian with scores of young nubile conquests in her sexual history, because she is just irresistibly hot
Considering this resume, I would say that Megan is either a mental patient in a locked ward somewhere, or just a person who can’t resist pulling your leg. If I had to bet money, I would say mental patient, but that’s just me. What matters is that she can be wickedly funny and smart, and she’s basically a sweetie despite her combative posture.
Hey Megan, my wife has taken up knitting chemo caps for cancer patients with a church group, which they donate to a local hospital. Want one?
If you can see Megan, Megan can see you. If you can’t see Megan, you may be only seconds away from death.
I missed the bbeck beatdown, but I would have liked it.
Scott, I have thought about that, believe me. If Megan is not a mental patient, she could be #2, a ninja assassin. If so, I’m a dead man for teasing her.
*Michael holds his Kimber, watches the windows*
I missed the bbeck beatdown, but I would have liked it.
Bbeck was actually the source of the whole hump thing with Laura. Laura was trying to distinguish herself from bbeck flirting with everyone by flaunting references to her boobs (and a pic).
That was s strategy which earned Laura my eternal respect, because most of us know that Laurie is a hottie who would outshine bbeck in any room. Comment threads at AOSHQ can be a tough place for women, and Laura has handled the environment with humor and dignity.
I absolutely hated the big boob flaunting thing. I hated her and I don’t hate much.
I remember about 3 photos. What ever happened? Husband crack down?
I absolutely hated the big boob flaunting thing. I hated her and I don’t hate much.
Comment threads at AOSHQ can be a tough environment for women. Laura has managed to navigate with dignity and humor. Everyone respects her.
I think she’s a special person. Of course, you know that too, better than me.
I hated her and I don’t hate much.
Look, Scott, I’ve met you and you’re just not a hater. I can tell. I’m not a hater either. Hate is too much effort.
Plus, she does not deserve hate from us. That would honor her.
A better word is contempt.
What ever happened? Husband crack down?
I don’t know, Lipstick. I have a vague recollection of her saying that she was just too busy with her wonderful life to be online.
So, yeah, I was thinking husband crackdown also.
Boob girl’s major problem was she never saw a situation she couldn’t turn into a fight.
It got old quick.
geoff: “That’s the direction you’re going to go? A tribute to Carl Sagan isn’t worthy because the same points he made have been made since in computer games? And because the aforementioned tribute came after those computer games?”
No, the direction I’m going to go in is this: “all living things are literally related” is a fucking imbecilic point. The difference between tree DNA and human DNA is “negligible,” and that’s supposed to be inspiring or thought-provoking? Please. It’s Mass Effect. It’s Babylon 5 without the theme music. “We are all star stuff.” Hurrah! Let’s stand stock-still in awe and contemplate the glorious interconnexion of all life and the wonders of creation!
Whether one dumb thing is based upon another doesn’t matter; it’s still dumb, no matter who originally came up with it. And Sagan wasn’t the first person on earth to say it or demonstrate it in a memorable way. He was just the first person to demonstrate it in that particular way.
So this was silly. I don’t think that the quantifiably miniscule difference between tree and human DNA is some sort of grand significant point proving we’re just like trees, or whatever; to me it proves instead the enormous significance of the difference: complex iterative operations resulting in radically varying outcomes, chaos theory writ very large. The supposed Sagan revelation becomes even more ridiculous when you add the so-called C-value enigma and our vast tracts of non-coding DNA into the mix.
Only children or fools would consider this worthy of note; you should be grateful God is supposed to protect both.
Butters: 1. A high-level strategist for the Republican Party who personally knows every influential conservative in D.C.
Not anymore. I did some work for the SRPC, but that was before the Bush administration tried to get people in line on the amnesty thing. When that happened I stopped doing any work for the Republican Party.
2. Some kind of ninja assassin with many kills to her credit, who is now being hunted by intelligence agencies around the world seeking retribution.
No comment.
3. A cancer patient, bald and wasted away from the chemo and radiation therapy, who is on the brink of death. In fact, she should be dead by now, based on the last medical report I read.
My hair never fell out, and I’m off chemo again. It was messy and painful and it wasn’t doing any good. As for the “wasted away” part, I dunno, does a BMI of 12.5 qualify?
4. An aging lesbian
Hey, I’m only 31!
with scores of young nubile conquests in her sexual history
200 exactly.
because she is just irresistibly hot
Eh. I was a high 7 on a good day, before all the surgeries and so on. If you had to single out any one factor, I’d guess it was mostly due to the fact that a lot of girls saw my crankiness as something to be conquered. I drew hordes of would-be saviors. Of course, saving someone is tiring work, and eventually all of them dumped me, so there’s that.
non-coding DNA
Nope, Megan, you’re missing the point (the point being made by God). The DNA strand was a basic plan for life, with which God tinkered. The non-coding DNA actually illustrates this point. This is not chaos, it is cosmos. It speaks of a higher intelligence than us.
to me it proves instead the enormous significance of the difference: complex iterative operations resulting in radically varying outcomes
Uh huh, you go girl.
chaos theory writ very large.
Whoops. You fucked up there. Because the “outcomes” you are referring to are cosmic, — organized life which grows and colonizes and spreads — not chaotic.
200 exactly.
See, that right there is why I love you. You never fail to make me laugh.
And Sagan wasn’t the first person on earth to say it or demonstrate it in a memorable way.
Meh, 30 years ago the similarities in DNA were still a surprising outcome. And his popular reception speaks to the novelty of the concepts, or the appeal of his presentation, or both.
I don’t care much for the Gaia-type interpretation myself, but anything that makes people step back and look at the cosmic picture is worth a little New Age hokum.
I missed the bbeck beatdown, but I would have liked it.
I liked bbeck. Wish she would come back. I know that’s not a widely held opinion, but there ya go.
I know that’s not a widely held opinion, but there ya go.
WHERE THE FUCK IS MY BANHAMMER!!!
*Not in the attic. I’ll search the yard.*
just use your Kimber
geoff: fair enough.
Butters: “Whoops. You fucked up there. Because the “outcomes” you are referring to are cosmic — organized life — not chaotic.”
Exactly wrong. You are in essence arguing from the anthropic principle, which is utterly ludicrous. Also, if you think that “chaotic” (by which I take it you mean “disorganized”) outcomes are the inevitable result of chaotic systems, you’re a complete idiot; I refer you to a basic fractal algorithm for summary proof.
“Uh huh, you go girl.”
Which word confused you? “Complex?” DNA is complex. We have no fucking clue what most of it does. “Iterative operations?” Evolution is exactly that. “Radically varying outcomes?” Isn’t that a fair way to characterize trees and humans?
I believe in God too, but to pretend that She had to “tinker” with DNA to get it to produce humans (or trees) is beyond stupid. God is looking down at you right now and sneering, “You little twerp. You think I couldn’t hit the balls with my cue stick in just the right way? You really an omniscient, omnipotent being has to “tinker” with her creation after the fact?” Besides (not to go too far off point) God could have created everything five seconds before you read this and you would have no way of knowing otherwise; it wouldn’t even be a “lie” (however you’d define that in context). As Gosse proved in his brilliant Omphalos, the creation of Adam ex nihilo would have necessitated the creation of evidence of prior existance: blood, hair, nails.
“This is not chaos, it is cosmos” may be a cute soundbite, but it’s absolutely meaningless. Dynamic systems can and do produce order, even organization, through adaptation and convergent evolution.
Scientists sound stupid when they pretend to know how or why life, or the universe, started. Christians sound equally stupid when they pretend that God must have “tinkered” with the universe because nothing at all makes sense otherwise. I’ll tell you what doesn’t make sense: designing an eye that’s upside down, backwards, and inside out.
Why is it that you all have such a huge fucking problem with saying the words, “I don’t know?”
Why is it that you all have such a huge fucking problem with saying the words, “I don’t know?”
Oh don’t you even go there. We know, I’m telling you, we really do.
We just don’t feel like explaining it right now.
I accept that geoff knows; I do not accept that Butters does.
Evolution is the chaotic brush which paints upon the deterministic canvas of DNA
Ah heck, that previous comment was supposed to be enclosed in sagan tags, i.e., [sagan] [/sagan]
Anybody know what that white stuff in a Twinkie is?
I read the label. I don’t believe it.
I believe in God too
Great! Now I just need to nudge you in the direction of Pure Lutheran Doctrine™.
I’ll tell you what doesn’t make sense: designing an eye that’s upside down, backwards, and inside out.
Why is it that you all have such a huge fucking problem with saying the words, “I don’t know?”
I don’t know. You are talking to Butters now, I’m serious.
Look, Megan, I used to spend a lot of time at atheist/evolutionary websites saying “I don’t know” but defending the Christian perspective. The “problem of the eye” which confounded Darwin is the tip of the iceberg.
Evolutionary biology answers many questions, but does not purport to address the issue of abiogenesis, which you mentioned, i.e., how did life start? Evolutionary biology assumes life.
I don’t know. I figure that a God worth worshiping has the answer. When I die and go to heaven, I am going to demand some answers. In the meantime, I place my faith on the record of God keeping His promises, and threats.
Anybody know what that white stuff in a Twinkie is?
Yes, I do.
The white stuff in a Twinkie is a declaration of the glory of God. It is matter and energy that has been organized to demonstrate His sovereignty over chaos, i.e., Satan, and reveal Himself to us.
Glad I could help out with that question, Dave.
Butters: “When I die and go to heaven”
That’s awfully presumptuous. Or does “Pure Lutheran Doctrine™” differ from my catechism on the basic fact that everyone deserves to go to Hell? 😛
That’s awfully presumptuous. Or does “Pure Lutheran Doctrine™” differ from my catechism on the basic fact that everyone deserves to go to Hell?
We all deserve to go to Hell. Keep reading that cathechism about the “means of grace.”
Baptism.
The Word.
The Eucharist.
Confession and Absoution.
The Fellowship of Believers.
Megan, I’ve known friends who think they are too bad to merit God’s grace. It is really just a form of pride, the cardinal sin. They think they are beyond the reach of God’s grace, which is an insult to the sacrifice of Jesus.
You misunderstand. I’m Catholic, remember? There’s no such thing as a “means of grace” in my catechism. I find the very notion an absurd contradiction in terms.
It still bothers me to say “Jesus.” It seems to me, if we’re going to worship Him, then we ought to get His name right. The anglicized version of His name should be something like “Yeshua.”
The white stuff in a Twinkie is a declaration of the glory of God.
Yes, that sort of thing keeps me more of an agnostic than an atheist (though on a good day I’m a deist).
though on a good day I’m a deist
…where “good day” means facing down a pack of double-stuffed bad boys.
You misunderstand. I’m Catholic, remember? There’s no such thing as a “means of grace” in my catechism.
That’s just not so. You were not paying attention.
Catholics have more “means of grace” than Lutherans.
E.g,, for Catholics “extreme unction” is a means of grace.
Same thing for marriage, which is sacramental in Catholic doctrine.
Butters: The anglicized version of His name should be something like “Yeshua.”
That sounds really gay. Why am I not surprised that you proposed it?
Butters: “That’s just not so. You were not paying attention.
Catholics have more “means of grace” than Lutherans.”
I know zip about Lutherans, but “means of grace” sounds to me like works-based redemption, which is directly contrary to ALL things Catholic. You can’t earn grace, you can’t buy grace, and you definitely can’t deserve grace. By its nature, it’s a gift, and you are unworthy. You will always be unworthy. That’s absolutely central to the Catholic concept of redemption.
Same thing for marriage, which is sacramental in Catholic doctrine.
Puts an indelible mark on your soul, it does.
That sounds really gay. Why am I not surprised that you proposed it?
I’m not proposing it. It’s his name in Hebrew, which the Bible says was ordained by God.
The modern equivalent survives as the Jewish name Joshua.
“Joshua” sounds less gay, but that name is forever tainted by its association with The Left Wing.
“Joshua” sounds less gay, but that name is forever tainted by its association with The Left Wing.
Granted. But in Hebrew, the name means “God is our salvation.”
Joshua was really Yehoshua. Jesus was Yeshua.
Glad to hear the Catholics are coming around on sola fide and sola gratia. Three more to go!
Puts an indelible mark on your soul, it does.
See. Geoff. Catholic doctrine has ventured into the area of human sexuality in a way the Lutheran doctrine does not.
So, Catholics condemn birth control, in vitro fertilization, and masturbation, because for Catholics sex is sacramental and sex necessarily should involve the risk of procreation, as God ordains.
I admire the Vatican for its intellectual consistency on this point, even though they are wrong. There is no scriptural support for this doctrine.
But, there is one good consequence of this Catholic doctrinal error. Where Lutherans and Catholics stand shoulder-to-shoulder is on the issue of the sanctity of unborn life. We are resolute with our Catholic friends in opposition to convenience abortions.
Mrs Peel:
Um, not really. We think faith is insufficient, but then we think everything is insufficient. “Sola gratia” has always been Catholic doctrine, AFAIK.
Butters: “for Catholics sex is sacramental and sex necessarily should involve the risk of procreation, as God ordains”
I don’t think the Church sees it as a “risk.” The proper word would be “purpose.” Genesis 1:28.
The proper word would be “purpose.” Genesis 1:28.
I stand corrected. Did I not tell you people that Megan knows her Bible?!?
Um, not really. We think faith is insufficient, but then we think everything is insufficient.
Yup. That’s the problem with Catholics. This is why they invent bullshit like Purgatory, obligatory Holy Days of Absolution, mandatory dogmas like the Assumption of Mary which youmust believe in order to be admitted to heaven.
Also, it’s actually true that President Kennedy was subject to the authority of the Pope if he wanted to go to stay out of hell. Google Bull Unum Sanctum.
I found my special purpose!
I’m going to do this a lot.
I found my special purpose!
Saying stupid shit?
What???
I found my special purpose!
Maybe he meant to say that on Lipstick’s thread.
Again, um, not really. I don’t deny that the Catholic Church has done many fucked-up things in the past, and still adheres to many fucked-up things in the present (hell, I was the one advocating issuing an arrest order for the Pope and fire-bombing the Vatican, not necessarily in that order, when the pedophile thing broke; I said that if Catholics couldn’t be trusted as a group to obey the laws of the United States then they should be treated as enemy combatants) but according to Catholic doctrine, obeying the Pope or believing one thing or another simply does not mean that you get to stay out of Hell. JFK had a much better grasp on this than you seem to.
But I’m not surprised that you’re wrong about this, as you were also wrong about “extreme unction.” I was offered that before I lapsed into a coma. Tangentially, I refused, but the point is that it was in no way presented to me as a “means” of obtaining grace. It would have been a mercy, but it wasn’t grace.
according to Catholic doctrine, obeying the Pope or believing one thing or another simply does not mean that you get to stay out of Hell. JFK had a much better grasp on this than you seem to.
Megan, as I understand it (could be wrong), a bull pronounces mandatory doctrine which is necessary to salvation, which is why it is not much used any more. Modern popes use the encyclical, which is more like a sermon that offers friendly guidance from the pope, but unlike a papal bull, obedience is not necessary to salvation.
Regarding Bull Unum Sanctum, we are talking about medieval politics, and Kennedy was right to repudiate it.
PS. What’s your problem with the Assumption of Mary? She was the first (or second, depending on what you believe about Lilith) human to ever have existed without the taint of the original sin, if you believe in the Immaculate Conception (nota bene: it had nothing to do with Jesus). If anyone deserved (inasmuch as anyone can deserve) to go Heaven, she did. cf: Millenium, Anamnesis:
“She knows she’s very special…”
“She knows her life is ruined.”
Three lives totally fucked beyond belief (snark), just to save the rest of us.
Butters: “Regarding Bull Unum Sanctum, we are talking about medieval politics, and Kennedy was right to repudiate it.”
Whatever it may have been, if it involved the President of the United States being beholden to the Pope, damn right he was.
PPS.
Butters: “as I understand it (could be wrong), a bull pronounces mandatory doctrine which is necessary to salvation”
Nothing can be necessary to salvation. That is the central teaching of the Catholic Church. If anyone, even a pope, ever said otherwise, he or she was going directly against Catholic doctrine.
PPPS.
Butters, get on AIM. You seem to be very confused about one hell of a lot of things about Catholic theology, and you make yourself look like a goddamn ass when you start pontificating about it. Maybe I can set you straight, though to be frank, I kinda doubt it.
PPPPS.
From Sparkles’ website: “I’ve “known” Sparkles over 3 websites and approximately 5 years. My internet identity is pretty firmly established. You want to spend your time trying to debunk it, knock yourself out. I have plenty of things to hide, but my gender, my sexuality, and my salary are not among them…
“Pick your enemies more carefully.”
Same goes for you lot. Fucking watch it. We’re not in the fucking mood tonight. Tomorrow, another personality might be more or less forgiving, but do you really want to chance that?
We pick our enemies based on how much they annoy us, essentially. Don’t get up to that tank. We will fuck you over. Okay, maybe not as much as Olympia Snowe holding up a Services Committee for three fucking years for our lackluster promotion, but we’ll find a fucking way.
Call it karma.
PPPPPS. And you’re not anonymous. Only we are. Fuck you. Retards. There was a reason we were made the only fucking expert on coherent extrapolative randomization codas in the whole fucking world and given operational capacity on same. So fuck you, and all that.
coherent extrapolative randomization codas
Gotta admit: I have no freakin’ idea what that means. But then I’m the guy who just ran his CFD code for 5 more hours because he slipped a digit.
Beer might have been involved.
We now need our current girlfriend, whom we’ve never actually met, nor yet ever had sex with, which reaches the point of 6+ years. Oh, shut up. It’s better than 99% of you lot. And at least I was married once.
…okay, the girlfriend’s not around. So I guess I’ll just stick with abusing you idiots. Which isn’t all that difficult a task, come to think of it. God really does have mercy.
geoff, just because I respect him: “coherent extrapolative randomization codas (transposition admit: my parentheses: “Gotta admit: I have no freakin’ idea what that means)
“Coherent:” = does work that works on down the line. Does the first thing make you doubt the last thing? If no, you get “coherent.” That’s all it means.
“Extrapolative:” Well, all *that* means is what you take from the initial parameters of any given condition, and use those to get to final conclusion. Pretty straightforward.
Do you have any other probelems with our characterization?
If so, we’ll be happy to address it.
Oh and we saw our own predecessors in re: spelling mistakes, and us. If that’s the best you can do, then pre-emptively, fuck you. You suck.
“We do what we must because we can”
– the only real Christian doctrine in the fucking world.
Fuck you if you can’t see that.
You’re a fucking dumbass.
(NB: for the last half hour or so, we could not post on this site. So we were mildly pissed, and blamed Butters for the fact. In turn, it seems it was due to a random internet thingie.)
Hey there, good morning everybo-
*skims thread*
*backs slowly out of room*
Do you have any other probelems with our characterization?
Oh, I know what the individual words mean. I extrapolate and use random functions all the time. I’ve even been coherent once or twice. But even after the charity of your explanation, I have no idea what CERCs are. Or even what field they belong to.
Nothing can be necessary to salvation. That is the central teaching of the Catholic Church. If anyone, even a pope, ever said otherwise, he or she was going directly against Catholic doctrine.
Erm, faith is necessary to salvation. Everybody sorta agrees on that, including all the popes.
Maybe you should read the Wikipedia article on Christianity, just to get yourself started with the whole Christian theology thing.
You’re a fucking dumbass.
Love you too, sweetie. Get some sleep.
…
Dave, that was funny!
Does Dave like pie?
Inquiring minds want to know.
This conversation was interesting and amusing for various reasons until it became boorish.
I’m going to go make a bowl of oatmeal while contemplating life teaming on a speck of dust in a sunbeam in a vast, ever-expanding warehouse.
And I’m going to try not to be sad because Michael was mean to Dave.
And I’m going to try not to be sad because Michael was mean to Dave.
Mean?
That was an homage to what is probably the most famous joke ever at IB.
Or even what field they belong to.
Unless it’s market forecasting.
From the Book of Compos 1:1
http://tinyurl.com/ydlj7u5
That was supposed to be from the book of “Compos”
Michael, if you would be so kind as to fix it, I will forgive you for being mean to Dave.
Thank you, Michael. Hug?
No.
Heh.
Awww, c’mon big guy! Give us a squeeze! *holds arms wide open*
Oh sure cm.
*hugsies*
Whoooo loooovesss Michael?
Compos does!
Thanks Dave!
Dave gives good hugs.
Dave gives good hugs.
…and they never end.
hahaha! Yeah, you can let go now, fella.
http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=76&sid=219520#comments
This video is long but it grows on you. Looks like a nice bunch of kids having fun. Makes ya smile.
Especially the young man at 3:42. Holy shit.
I’ve just finished reading through this thread and this is what I take away from it:
Megan is fucked-up like a brickbat.
Especially the young man at 3:42. Holy shit.
I was expecting some outrageous costume at 3:42, not for lauraw to go all cougar on us 🙂
Fun video indeed!
Hah… that does put a smile on your face.
>> hahaha! Yeah, you can let go now, fella.
What? Hey, you’re lucky it’s me and not Laura*. She’d be coppin a feel.
…
* Ok that makes no sense really. You’re very unlucky.
Megan – you seem like a truly scary person…but I do agree w/ you about the weirdness of conservative bloggers’ inability/unwillingness to say, “I don’t know.”
She said no such thing, Mark. When she said ‘you all’ she was not referring to ‘all you conservatives.’ Especially since she stands pretty far to the right of most of these guys.
That was unnecessarily snide. How is your day going today? You OK?
Maybe he needs a hug too?
Good luck Mark!
*puts down pudding but leaves spoon in mouth. shuffles over to Mark with pants around ankles*
Mark needs a hug?
Sorry Laura – didn’t intend snideness. Just something I used to notice back at Geoff’s and here, too — issues that make my head spin with all their complications (immigration is one I remember) didn’t seem to have that effect on conservative posters. I remember thinking, “How can you be so sure that’s the solution?” A source of strength in some ways, I suppose, and maybe I’m envious, too. I like my gray areas, but I admit they don’t always keep me moving forward.
Thanks for reaching out…my day’s going OK (too much work). I hope all is OK w/ you.
>> but I do agree w/ you about the weirdness of conservative bloggers’ inability/unwillingness to say, “I don’t know.”
This from the guy who loves to call people on their “sweeping generalizations”.
Then the intentions disclaimer, followed of course with the explanation which gives “meaningful context” to the jackassery.
You kill me.
Yeah, you’re too attuned to the delicious nuancey shadings and complexities of life that we rockheaded dummies are blind and deaf to. That’s the whole problem right there in a nutshell.
Sorry. I guess that particular bit can make me snide too.
But listen; there’s absolutely no nuance to the fact that compos wants to hug you with his dingle out. You boys play nice, now.
*steals the rest of Compos’ pudding*
to the fact that compos wants to hug you with his dingle out
Hey! I gots on my Wonder Woman Underoos.™
*steals the rest of Compos’ pudding*
It’s alright, kc. I’ll share. I couldn’t find any tapioca, so I used a bunch of ant eggs instead.
Wow, that attempt at conciliation didn’t go too well.
Poor execution, limited self-awareness.
But I’m sure your intentions were fucking awesome.
*holds up card with 4.5 on it*
I remember thinking, “How can you be so sure that’s the solution?”
It’s one of the fundamental conservative tenets: “If you’re not sure, don’t fuck with it.”
It’s not always that we think we understand complex problems fully – often it’s just that we’re sure that every proposed solution is going to have unintended consequences that will make things worse.
But immigration is an easy one: if it’s illegal, then enforce the law.
How charmingly uncomplicated you are, geoff.
*shakes small teddy bear rattle in geoff’s face*
yes you are you are such a sweet boy yes you aaaarrre
Dave – your predispositions (and that “train to Dachau” simile) disqualify you from judging.
Laura – I’m not proud of that 4.5 (unless it’s out of 5.0), so I’ll think about what I might have said differently.
Geoff – nice as always; though I shudder to think what you’d write if we didn’t have a connection to Mrs. G in common.
though I shudder to think what you’d write if we didn’t have a connection to Mrs. G in common.
Oh, it can get kind of nasty. I used to be universally reasonable and reasoned, refraining from insulting trolls and concentrating on their arguments. But then I discovered (well after everybody else), that their sole purpose was to disrupt the conversations on threads and draw attention to themselves.
So now I just make fun of them as soon as they appear.
Butters:
“Erm, faith is necessary to salvation. Everybody sorta agrees on that, including all the popes. “
Dead wrong, even about your own faith. The doctrine of “sola gratia” contradicts you explicitly.
“Maybe you should read the Wikipedia article on Christianity”
And now the problem becomes clear. You are basing your understanding of faith on Wikipedia.
You fucking idiot.
geoff: “It’s not always that we think we understand complex problems fully – often it’s just that we’re sure that every proposed solution is going to have unintended consequences that will make things worse.”
Very good summation.
Meh, I may have bit your head off. Let’s just make finger-guns at each other and move on.
That was to Mark.
PS – PERSONAL. Laura, we still love you. Thanks for defending us. 🙂 You’re a darling.
You fucking idiot.
You have the social grace of a fart.
Mark, he might tell you to fuck off with your incessant sniping and needling. Or at least learn to figure out that you, you know, actually do that, so you can properly manage your expectations.
I don’t know. He’s pretty nice.
I’m not.
harrison: “You have the social grace of a fart.”
And you have its significance.
We’ve never pretended to be nice. We are, however, probably the most intelligent human being to ever have existed. Which is probably why we drink so much vodka.
If you laided-off the sauce there might be fewer we’s.
No.
Has everyone seen Fight Club?
I think Megan is actually Michael’s Tyler Durden. It makes so much sense!
Harrison, ix-nay on the ee-way.
It’s the oices-vay. Again-way.
So, you’re proud to be a drunk?
harrison: “So, you’re proud to be a drunk?”
[snorts] Ask us that again while you’re translating the set {aaa} into {ba, ab} and show your work; also, demonstrate how a zeta function over sigma five prime in an alpha series irreducibly resolves to infinity by the second iteration.
You should ask yourself why you’re proud to be sober. There seems to be little reason.
Frankly, Laura and I exhale more brain cells on an average day than you twits ever got in the first place.
You should ask yourself why you’re proud to be sober.
Ummm, ’cause I can think clearly.
harrison: “Ummm, ’cause I can think clearly.”
LIE
Oh, SHIT! You got me there!
This is like watching Tourette’s Guy with a slightly spiffier plot line.
Well that and you know he’s acting.
[kindly] We did, but we’re not going to gloat over it. Thinking clearly is a fucking curse, but it’s nothing a few bottles of Stolichnaya can’t cure.
irreducibly resolves to infinity
I don’t know nuthin’ bought no Zeta series – my math pretty much stopped with PDEs, conformal mapping, linear algebra, and perturbation theory – but I thought I should be able to make sense out of that clause, at least. But I’m stumped.
Oops: “bought” = “’bout”
The reference to Wikipedia was a joke, Megan.
Ask us that again while you’re translating the set {aaa} into {ba, ab}
The answer is 32.
also, demonstrate how a zeta function over sigma five prime in an alpha series irreducibly resolves to infinity by the second iteration.
Also 32. Thought you could trick me, huh?
…but it’s nothing a few bottles of Stolichnaya can’t cure.
It’s like watching a trainwreck.
47, doofus.
*double-checks his work*
Damn, your right. Now I’m really embarrassed.
harrison:
You’re a twit, and frankly, the idea of you watching anything we do gives us the fucking creeps.
That’s a plus.
Butters:
*double-checks his work*
Damn, your right. Now I’m really embarrassed.
Thank you. Rules of Megan, #1: We are always right.
harrison: “That’s a plus.”
You’re also a dumbass.
Heh. This is fun.
I can never tell if it’s the giant brain or the vodka. It’s subtle.
Indeed. 🙂
to both
On an unrelated note: Did Ace really say that he hated Fifth Element? ‘cuz that’s just wrong.
Geoff – I’m not sure immigration is that easy. Lately, I’ve become involved w/ a group, visiting detainees at an ICE detention center in Elizabeth, NJ. These people — from Indonesia, Congo, other places — have become friends to me, with crazy, harrowing stories. So have their families (incl. children born here and therefore US citizens). They work hard, pay taxes, have no interest in a free ride.
Obviously, a country needs to protect its borders, and I guess it’s legal to deport these people and break up their families, but it sure doesn’t feel ok. And not a good idea on many practical levels either.
So…deport them all: not easy; change the law: not easy; continue with the status quo: not easy. Once you know the individuals, it’s not an easy one at all.
Yeah, I noticed that too, Geoff. How can you hate a movie featuring a super-hot redhead who is half-nekkid?
No one is allowed to hate The Fifth Element, just because of Milla Jovovich’s breasts. Also, the Bruce Willis “negotiation” scene.
We don’t have to break up their families — send the whole family home. And make a law or amendment saying that if you’re here illegally, any kids born here don’t get citizenship.
BTW, Mark, I’m on board with you about immigration, i.e., there are no easy answers to the mess we have created.
See, right there I said “I don’t know” again.
Dang, I must be a closet liberal.
>> Did Ace really say that he hated Fifth Element? ‘cuz that’s just wrong.
hahahaha. He did.
My favorite part of that movie was Oldman. He cracked me up.
Milla is just too damned skinny. Does nothing for me.
They work hard, pay taxes, have no interest in a free ride.
The first thing they did when they got here was to shit on our law.
Sorry, no .
Although, Mark, I do understand your feelings. I can be all hard-ass from far away, but if I actually knew some of the people you know. . .
Geoff – I’m not sure immigration is that easy
Heh – two years ago I wrote on my blog:
incl. children born here and therefore US citizens
That law is the real source of the problem.
I guess it’s legal to deport these people and break up their families
Their families are broken up only if they insist on leaving their children here. I wrote a blog post about that as well.
Milla is just too damned skinny. Does nothing for me.
More for me!!
Oh please. We’re 5’7 and barely 80 lbs. You think anyone’s too “skinny” for us?
The real problem is why ALL “straight” girls think Angelina Jolie is so fucking hot. Our fucking MOM said she’d do her over a night of passion fruit coolers, and that’s an image we do not want in our head.
I’m not all gooey humanitarian about the plight of illegals. It’s more the WSJ perspective — illegals are an essential labor pool that has been grafted into the economy, and as a practical matter, it would be economic insanity to deport them all even if we could.
illegals are an essential labor pool that has been grafted into the economy
To resurrect our old argument: “…but at the cost of suppressing technical innovation and modernization in manufacturing, agriculture, and construction.”
Butters: “I’m not all gooey humanitarian about the plight of illegals. It’s more the WSJ perspective”
Again, you prove why you cannot be trusted as a conservative.
That’s cool, you can have her.
You’re very welcome.
Michael, it’s economic suicide to keep them.
So I’ll take the insanity.
meant economic and cultural suicide.
That’s very colonialist of you, Michael.
The law comes first.
Michael is, fundamentally, a liberal.
Which is why we do not trust him. Ever. About anything.
Like I said, this issue involves difficult trade-offs no matter what you do.
I think we all agree that it’s crazy to grant automatic citizenship to anyone borne here. The second generation is the biggest problem, by all accounts.
The second generation is the biggest problem, by all accounts.
Yup. The first generation is very law-abiding. The second generation is out of control. I wrote a post on that, as well.
*gives Michael the crazy-eye*
Butters: “The second generation is the biggest problem, by all accounts.”
Again, you know zip. The third and the fourth generations are the absolute worst, even according to the horribly left-wing SLPC. Second generations are relatively benign, given that they tend to be mostly influenced by first generation immigrants, who are the best.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
GET BACK ON THE BOAT LAURA, YOU TROUBLEMAKER YOU
I can’t get *back* on no boat, I was borned here!
Laura’s right. Michael deserves nothing but a crazy-eye, even if it does come from Connecticut.
The third and the fourth generations are the absolute worst, even according to the horribly left-wing SLPC.
That could be. The study I read didn’t address later generations.
Second generations are relatively benign
Naw – the 2nd generation is left to fend for themselves while their parents work their butts off, with all the temptations of American culture to corrupt them. Their parents have no idea what their kids are facing, and so the 2nd generation ends up with higher-than-average incarceration rates and a host of other social ills.
Also, you cand get theah from heah
‘Back on the boat’ is code-word stuff.
We all do that here in Yankeeland, Megan. That’s pretty much all we ever say to each other.
Sucks when you really do need directions.
geoff: “Naw – the 2nd generation is left to fend for themselves while their parents work their butts off, with all the temptations of American culture to corrupt them. Their parents have no idea what their kids are facing, and so the 2nd generation ends up with higher-than-average incarceration rates and a host of other social ills.”
Anecdotally, we’d agree with you. All the 2nd-gen immigrants we know fit that model. But FBI modelling data proves it’s wrong. 2nd-gens tend to go back to more revisionary – oh, fuck the semantics, more horrid thoughts than their parents have adapted to. Look up the rolls for La Raza and Al Qaeda. (Yes, there are “official” Al Qaeda groups in the United States, and no, we don’t prosecute them. Getting pissed yet?) 3rd and 4th are the absolute worst. They’re the ones who tend to join mara salvatrucha. We’ve butchered enough of those bastards to know that.
I based my comment on this study:
MIS, what a fucking brilliant source.
I thought the worst MS-13 fuckers were all 1st recent border crossers?
I don’t know why I thought that. It’s probably a construct based on anecdotal crime stories here in Texas.
I don’t do this for a living.
MIS, what a fucking brilliant source.
Except that in this case, they were bending over backwards trying to show that there was no criminality problem due to illegal immigration.
1st generation.
I told you I don’t do this for a living.
Though their conclusions can reasonably be said to support our assertions, we have MAJOR problems with their methodology. Again, check the FBI casebooks on this. If you want unbiased and statistical, there’s your fucking source.
I told you I don’t do this for a living.
Seems like today nobody’s doing much of anything for a living.
geoff: “Except that in this case, they were bending over backwards trying to show that there was no criminality problem due to illegal immigration.”
And we agree with that. We just don’t agree with their numbers, or how they got them.
Again, check the FBI casebooks on this. If you want unbiased and statistical, there’s your fucking source.
I recall looking at their annual crime stats, but only finding a breakdown per ethnicity, not immigration status. When the immigration debate heats up next year, I’ll try again.
Fair enough.
“I’m not even angry, I’m being so sincere right now, even though you broke my heart and killed me, and tore me to pieces, and threw every piece into a fire…”
But “there’s no sense crying over every mistake….”
“We do what we must because we can”
Jeez, lady. Go ahead and pass out, already.
I think that one is the fifteen year old boy talking.
Not sure. I’m outta practice.
This would be more impressive if either one of you could prove the passed-out fifteen year-old boy wrong about anything.
Otherwise it’s just pointless. Just like you.
GITJER PROGRAMS HERE!!
CAN’T TELL ONE PERSONALITY
FROM ANOTHER WITHOUT A PROOOOGRAM!!
All you seem to have against us is that we’re “rude,” or that we don’t have any “social graces.”
Well fuck us, but that’s not an argument.
That would require some desire on my part to impress you.
Not feelin that.
ps. (kinda.) Can we “unsubscribe” people like “Old Guy” from, well, everything?
Dave: “323. Dave in Texas – October 1, 2009, That would require some desire on my part to impress you. Not feelin that.”
Which was never the point. The point was, do you agree with us or not, and either or, on what basis?
Show your work.
Just tryin’ to make a livin’ here…
Agree with you? Which one of you? The “random quoting” you, the “fuck all y’all” you, or the stalker you?
I guess, just based on the odds, I might agree with 2 out of 7 of you.
But I don’t even know what the fuck you’re talking about.
*delurks*
Is this thread going to go full circle and have Michael relating the Doctrine of Election to immigration policy? If so, I’m making some popcorn.
*re-lurks*
I don’t know, Dex. I think Michael might have shot himself in the face in an attempt to get rid of Megan Durden.
Is this thread going to go full circle and have Michael relating the Doctrine of Election to immigration policy?
*thinks it over*
Hmmmmmm.
Dave: ” the stalker you”
Oh, don’t flatter yourself.
Ninja please, I am not as dumb as I look.
I’m not talking about me.
Also, there have been multiple times when we’ve been attacked by everyone else on a message board. So this isn’t new, this isn’t fun, and this is definitely not predictable. We’ll win, and it won’t be messy. It’ll just be boring.
But don’t let that stop you. It never has anyone else.
[sigh] Predictable.
Honey, I’m not attacking you. Really. Chill.
We always liked you, Dave. 🙂
…and not just because of the “in Texas” tag and because we have a thing for cowboy hats. Um, okay, we’ll shut up right about now.
And I like you too Megan. It’s just the worry-wort in me. No offense intended.
np.
We also have a major thing for librarian specs. Can’t help it. Weak in the knees on those girls.
[confession time] The cowboy hats thing is only for guys, though. Girls can’t pull it off. It just looks wrong.
Also, naked men just look wrong, which is why we could never be straight. We’d be laughing our head off whenever he disrobed, which might put a crimp in our sex life…
…not that it’s any great shakes right now, or has even existed for the past several years. But still. Naked men. That’s total (if unintentional, if you don’t believe in God) comedy.
[hums to herself]
“Give me a reason to live,
You can leave your hat on…”
“And the science gets done, and you make a neat gun for the people who are still alive…”
We’ll win, and it won’t be messy. It’ll just be boring.
And what would you consider as winning?
Good question. We’ve never “won” yet.
Megan, give me a shot and I’ll have you playing for the other team in no time.
I have never had the honor of meeting Megan but that doesn’t mean I don’t have a mental image of her
http://tinyurl.com/yctqda5
Heh.
Meganpinto? Wickedmegan?
(What? SOMEONE had to say it!)
In case anyone here has no idea what the f’ “they’re” quoting.
Good question. We’ve never “won” yet.
Really?
*ponders this*
OK, I surrender. You were right and I was wrong. About everything.
It would help if you could send me an email detailing my new positions on Christian doctrine and immigration policy, so I can get it right in future posts.
“OK, I surrender. You were right and I was wrong. About everything.”
We accept. Thank you.
Incidentally, we’re on AIM with our functional address. shivaxid@ either yahoo.com or gmail.com. You’re welcome.
Golly gee, I should get banned more often.
Keep this up and you start getting CPM or something.
wow Megan, I feel sorry for you. Really. I hope you find your answers.
…this was prompted by what?
Russ: bite your tongue.
Brew: no. We have a pointier chin, we’re a redhead, and we have green eyes. We are also much paler and much thinner and a lot less pretty.
…this was prompted by what?
He probably read through your thread of babbling insanities.
‘struth.
Hi harrison.
But remember: we were right. On all points.
cf: Butters’ last post. We are always right, no matter how insane we might sound at the time.
While we’re here…
PERSONAL TO BUTTERS: “Searching on your IP address reveals that you were last here in May. Don’t be a stranger.”
Fuck you. We’ve given you a means to contact us (AIM, shivaxid@yahoo.com). If you want to stay in touch there’s your fucking chance. If you don’t, we couldn’t care less, but don’t pretend it’s some sort of manna from heaven when we do remember to drop by your stupid fucking site in between hospitalizations. Honestly, if you can only stand to speak to us every six months or so, try acting like something vaguely resembling a man and just fucking admit it. The whole “MEGAN! I LOVE YOU! SO GLAD TO SEE YOU AGAIN!” schtick is getting kinda old.
Take the hint, then.
Which one?
“Glad you dropped by again” or “Don’t be a stranger?”
Maybe “I still venerate you?” or “I… fear you and love you?”
Maybe you should tell him to stop sending mixed signals. We’ve responded with nothing but contempt.
Um… take a hike?
Sure. As soon as he says that.
Sure. As soon as he says that.
Personal to Megan:
I don’t have an AIM account, in fact, I don’t IM with anyone, or Twitter for that matter. I just don’t enjoy it or have time for it. I set up a Facebook page awhile back and never use it. I registered (as Butters) at that discussion group site you told me about a couple of years ago (the name escapes me) just to say hi to you, visited a few time, and hated that place. The vitriol there was obnoxious.
But, I tried to welcome and humor you here, even though it is clear that your meds aren’t working and you are persistently and inexplicably rude and hostile. I am rewarded with your outburst above.
Yeah, Megan, take a hike.
As you wish. Bye.
Golly, I sure didn’t see that coming.
I never had a chance to ask her how many cats she owns.
Comment #350:
I try to tell you people. But nooooooooooooo. Nobody ever listens to poor ol’ Russ
Ever hear the words “poor sport?”
Ever hear the words “50 millgrams, three times a day”?
What kind of sport exactly are we being poor about, the one where you scream “fuck you” at everybody and tell me how smart you are again, that kind of sport?
Hahahahaha. That kills me, every time. It’s almost as good as the drunken rants.
Almost.
Seriously. Welcome, worn out. Bye.
You morons wouldn’t recognize true genius if it were staring you in the face.
Oh, and FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCKITY FUCK
Architectural pattern are software patterns that offer well-established solutions to architectural problems in software engineering. It gives description of the elements and relation type together with a set of constraints on how they may be used. An architectural pattern expresses a fundamental structural organization schema for a software system, which consists of subsystems, their responsibilities and interrelations. In comparison to design patterns, architectural patterns are larger in scale.
Even though an architectural pattern conveys an image of a system, it is not an architecture as such. An architectural pattern is rather a concept that captures essential elements of a software architecture. Countless different architectures may implement the same pattern and thereby share the same characteristics. Furthermore, patterns are often defined as something “strictly described and commonly available”.[citation needed] For example, layered architecture is a call-and-return style, when it defines an overall style to interact. When it is strictly described and commonly available, it is a pattern.
One of the most important aspects of architectural patterns is that they embody different quality attributes. For example, some patterns represent solutions to performance problems and others can be used successfully in high-availability systems. In the early design phase, a software architect makes a choice of which architectural pattern(s) best provide the system’s desired qualities.
*stabs this thread in the heart*
h/t Cranky
I’m not dead yet!
……
…….
I think I’ll go for a walk!
…….
…….
I feel much better!
Cranky would have killed it with a journal entry in a GL sub account.
Probably expenses. Something really picky, like “laundry while traveling”.
“As you wish. Bye.”
Jekyll should keep Hyde up to date, check the fridge there might be a note.
Architectural pattern are software patterns that offer well-established solutions to architectural problems in software engineering.
Very interesting, Brew. But isn’t a standard software architectural solution (or constraint) inconsistent with the industry-wide movement towards a more flexible and open service oriented architecture? And how does such a system keep up with the ever-changing and expanding pool of open source tools that constitute an increasing percentage of the code base in most products?
Please, tell me more.
Zzzzzz……
*taps foot impatiently*
I’m on the edge of my chair here, Brew.
Michael, I think he’s over at the Powerline post waiting for someone to comment.
Carl Sagan’s accent – Connecticut, right?
tut tut, we are not amused. harumph
But isn’t a standard software architectural solution (or constraint) inconsistent with the industry-wide movement towards a more flexible and open service oriented architecture?
No.
And how does such a system keep up with the ever-changing and expanding pool of open source tools that constitute an increasing percentage of the code base in most products?
Only certain pieces of the prototypical corporate software system ever have to change. The User Experience portion is the obvious exceptions. The most important aspect of a good line-of-business application is its ability to be easily extended/scaled out, not changed per se. The other very important property of a good corporate application is its maintainability. It should be easily understood by future developers and this is where the use of well known software design patterns is critical. The use of open source software makes no difference what so ever. In fact, companies who place their mission critical systems on computers that run software that everybody in the whole world has the source code to is somewhat risky in my not so humble opinion.
………………”Rosebud”
*falls over dead*
[…] video, via Innocent Bystanders. Carl Sagan sings! Sort […]
*nods in agreement, strokes chin*
You make some interesting points, Brewfan. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
*Michael googles the buzzwords in his questions to find out what they mean.*
387 comments is NOT “billions and billions”
>setting the record straight<