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Joe Tries to Spin, But Ends Up Twisting in the Wind June 15, 2009

Posted by geoff in News.
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In the comments, lauraw linked to Joe Biden’s spin on the economic predictions for the stimulus package:

Vice President Joe Biden says “everyone guessed wrong” on the impact of the economic stimulus.

Really. Let’s look back about 4 months and try to remember who was guessing what:

  • Obama reminds GOP in stimulus meeting: “I won” (Hot Air): 1/23/09
  • House passes stimulus plan, but with no Republican votes (McClatchy): 1/28/09
  • Pence Opposes Democrat Stimulus Bill: “It Won’t Work”: 1/28/09
  • Economists say stimulus won’t work (St. Louis Post-Dispatch): 1/29/09
  • Analysis: Stimulus Won’t Jump-start Economy (AP): 2/13/2009
  • Sen. Cornyn: Stimulus Won’t Work (Fox): 2/13/09
  • Republican Governors Step Up Attacks on Obama Economic Policies (Bloomberg): 2/23/09

And among the highlights to the opposition to the bill, we had 200 economists taking out an ad in the New York Times saying it wouldn’t work, all GOP representatives voting against the bill, and all but 3 GOP senators voting against the bill. [And as Joey Buzz points out in the comments, I'd forgotten to mention the Tea Paries, which involved hundreds of thousands of American citizens of all political affiliations.]

Seems like more than a few people lacked faith in the impact of the economic stimulus, and the only people who “guessed wrong” were its ardent supporters. There have been few cases in politics where one party so completely and unequivocally owned a piece of legislation. Joe is a desperate, desperate man to even try to revise that history.

But that’s not all folks – he kept on going. I doubt anybody in the MSM is going to take him to task on this part, so we’ll have to do it here:

Biden says White House economists used standard formulas to estimate that 3.5 million jobs would be saved or created under the plan Congress passed earlier this year.

What’s wrong with that? Let me put it this way: glorifying their breezy use of rules of thumb with the term “standard formulas” is like calling a series of guesstimates a sophisticated computer model. Oh. I guess that’s what they did.

Stimulus-vs-unemployment-may-correctedAnyway, here’s how they did their analysis, which produced the blue portions of the graph at the right:

  1. Take spending in Quarter 1, multiply by a factor to get its effect on GDP in downstream Quarters. So for its effect on Q2, we multiply Q1 spending by 1.05 and add it to Q2′s GDP. Then we multiply Q2 spending by 1.05 and Q1 spending by 1.24, and add them to the baseline GDP prediction for Q3.  And so on. The multiplying factor changes depending on how many Quarters downstream of the spending you are, but levels off after about 2 years.
  2. Now we have a crude, crude estimate of the effect of stimulus spending on GDP. Then we get really scientific and say that 1% of GDP increase = 1 million jobs. If that has the feel of a complete swag, then I’d say you’re following this very well.

And that’s it.

What? You were expecting more? You thought that it would take more than an hour and the back of an envelope to make the calculations to justify an $800 billion spending package?

Yeah, me too.

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Comments»

1. daveintexas - June 15, 2009

My goodness. Fourteen whole pages of assumptions about how federal spending creates jobs.

Lotta work went into that.

2. Joey Buzz - June 15, 2009

Go easy on slow Joe as he is correct “everyone” was wrong. “Everyone one but the republicans that vote for it, the 200 economist that took out the ad, and everyone that attended a tea party.

3. Joey Buzz - June 15, 2009

sorry second line edit……that didnt vote..

4. MCPO Airdale - June 15, 2009

Stimulus IS working. It is paying off every Democrat lobbying outfit, pandering to their far-left base and pumping billions into voter fraud schemes that will ensure Democrat political power for a generation.

It was never intended to stimulate the economy. . . it was about the consolidation of power.

5. Edward Von Bear - June 15, 2009

^ACORN likes it, so who are we to judge?

6. wiserbud - June 15, 2009

Vice President Joe Biden says “everyone guessed wrong” on the impact of the economic stimulus.

Biden’s kind of…dumb, ain’t he?

7. Edward Von Bear - June 15, 2009

^good thing we dodged a bullet by not electing that snowbilly

8. ray - June 15, 2009

There is only one assumption that really matters; the assumption that government spending beyond the basics creates more jobs than it destroys. Spam stimulus spending creates much, much less than it costs. It is a net negative from the get go, and just goes down over time. Amateurs without real world experience or success make for horrible economic decisions.

9. jimbob - June 15, 2009

The meme “saved or created jobs” is pure rhetoric. There is no such economic measure as saved jobs. Its totally empty of meaning.

10. Car in - June 15, 2009

Seems like more than a few people lacked faith in the impact of the economic stimulus, and the only people who “guessed wrong” were its ardent supporters. There have been few cases in politics where one party so completely and unequivocally owned a piece of legislation. Joe is a desperate, desperate man to even try to revise that history.

Good thing they have the MSM on their side, or they may have been a bit of political fallout for this horrible blunder.

11. Not Jack - June 15, 2009

Even the stimulus money that has been spent didn’t go to create something, it just got put into Democratic campaign contributors bank accounts.

As most of us knew, Obama defines stimulus as paying back.

12. wiserbud - June 15, 2009

Its totally empty of meaning.

It’s almost poetic that a concept that is so completely empty of meaning should come from a President who is also so completely empty of meaning.

13. RandomAmateurEconomist - June 15, 2009

In a sane world, this would wipe Keynes off the map for good. Further proof this is not a sane world.

14. Hal - June 15, 2009

It’s amazing to me. He also brought up that teacher and police jobs were saved. I think though the “saved” teacher and police officer jobs point is a smoke screen too. That’s like saying we kept the brain dead patient alive for another 40 days. All that FED money for keeping those jobs runs out. And then the jobs are gone just as much as they were had the “stimulus money” not been handed out earlier.

I think what we need to do is protect our wallets at this point. I’ve been following the gold and silver markets with the widget http://www.learcapital.com/exactprice and it looks to me like a lot of people have been hedging wealth in those commodities and even in the companies that mine. And with that trillions of paper money this country is printing at lightning speed I think is going to choke the economy with inflation.

15. Trish - June 15, 2009

Yup, if Palin had been VP we’d be hearing a bunch of really dumb comments all the time. Wait, the current VP is always saying dumb and or ignorant things. Did I miss something? Nope, the left categorically hates Palin, and loves Biden. Says a lot for their integrity!

16. Hughie - June 15, 2009

Baseball had “Shoeless” Joe.

The Democrat Party has “Clueless” Joe”, one of the dumbest men politics has ever seen.

17. daveintexas - June 15, 2009

Did Joe give us the number for the website?

18. bgates - June 15, 2009

all but 3 GOP senators voting against the bill

Heh. By my way of counting, all but two of the Republicans currently in the Senate voted against the bill.

19. I R A Darth Aggie - June 15, 2009

Yes. Joe said the number was “127.0.0.1″.

20. J-o-b-s - PennJersey.info Forums - June 15, 2009

[...] Associated Press: Joe Biden says "everyone guessed wrong" on jobs number That's it? Joe Tries to Spin, But Ends Up Twisting in the Wind Innocent Bystanders Good thing they decided to $787 Billion dollars, the unemployment rate is 9.4 %, otherwise it [...]

21. Cathy - June 15, 2009

Democrat Joe Lieberman came out against the “public option” now.

22. kevlarchick - June 15, 2009

The “saved” jobs will only result in more layoffs when the money runs out in six months to a year. Joke.

23. Nostradamus in Texas - June 15, 2009

I predicted this shit too.

24. Daily Pundit » Biden: “I’m An Idiot” - June 15, 2009

[...] Joe Tries to Spin, But Ends Up Twisting in the Wind « Innocent Bystanders Vice President Joe Biden says “everyone guessed wrong” on the impact of the economic stimulus. [...]

25. Teleprompter - June 15, 2009

Joe Biden may be the dumbest man on the planet. Kinda shows you what kinda choices Obama makes when he’s forced to actually make a decision. Biden can’t even save the auto plants in his own state…in his own county.

“Saved Jobs” is a load of crap. If they are going to use this statistic, why don’t they make it a few million, rather than 150,000? Seems odd to brag about saving a few thousand jobs when there are 4 times as many new unemployment claims each month.

26. No, “Everyone” Did Not Guess Wrong « Nice Deb - June 15, 2009

[...] Joe Tries to Spin, But Ends Up Twisting in the Wind [...]

27. MostlyRight - June 15, 2009

I would pay $1000 to ACORN for Joe B., Nancy P., and Sean Connery on an episode of Jeopardy.

28. Jay in Ames - June 15, 2009

Silly IRA Darth Aggie, he really wanted the website address, not the number. Much easier to remember.

http://localhost

lets make sure we get the bestest info out there, please.

29. Cathy - June 15, 2009

Stimulus IS working. It is paying off every Democrat lobbying outfit, pandering to their far-left base and pumping billions into voter fraud schemes that will ensure Democrat political power for a generation… It was never intended to stimulate the economy. . . it was about the consolidation of power.

MCPO Airdale, you nailed it. This crap called the stimulus is about Obama’s payback for all the folks who got him in to office… plain and simple. Those who aren’t drinkin’ the Kool-Aid all know it.

30. Cathy - June 15, 2009

Rush Limbaugh just said on the radio today… pretty much his exact words…
NO EVERYONE DID NOT GUESS WRONG!

Brilliant write up, Geoff! Once again, kudos!

31. Consumer Confidence - June 15, 2009

WHEEEEEEeeeeeee!

32. mikeyslaw - June 15, 2009

“I’m a little revisionist, hear me shout, tip me over and pour me out.”

33. Wayne from Jeremiah Films - June 15, 2009

I quoted your post by grabbing the links to those who have spoken out Obama’s government expansion (Obamanomics) in a post on Jeremiah Films Yes Obama won, but No Obama did not win a mandate to be a God and Lord over us. He won to end gridlock to bring all voices to the table so that intelligent decisions could be made. Yes they were warned that Obama has little actual success.

34. Christopher Taylor - June 15, 2009

Here’s some needed analysis: find out how many jobs have been lost, assuming the stimulus package actually “created or saved” as many as it was said to. Figure out the unemployment number that we would have had in fantasy land, if the “stimulus” package hadn’t passed. My guess is that it would be up over 15%. Did they think the nation was going to be that bad, ever?

35. Cathy - June 15, 2009

I keep hearing that the notion of “saved” jobs bogus and simply can’t be quantified.

Sorry I don’t have the source, but last week I heard that IF we were looking at the full figures on unemployment to include those who are under-employed (working more hours/jobs and making less money, or working only part time because that is the only thing they can get right now) that the unemployment figures would be more like 16-17%.

Folks used to scream about these higher unemployment numbers all the time when the Republicans were in office. NOW we aren’t hearing diddly squat about it.

36. Cathy - June 15, 2009

^ I found it.

The current Underemployment rate is over 16%.

37. Craig - June 15, 2009

I had harder questions asked of me in Macroeconomics, I would expect the calculation to have a little more to it, if we were spending almost 800 billion dollars.

38. fkdupdad - June 15, 2009

crazy!

http://www.disney.com/

[Asst. Site Administrator Note: Take that! Linkwhore.]

39. SpiFF - June 15, 2009

from the analysis:

It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant
margins of error. There is the obvious uncertainty that comes from modeling a hypothetical
package rather than the final legislation passed by the Congress. But, there is the more fundamental
uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program. Our estimates of economic
relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly
in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the
current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity.

The economy is melting. Things are bad now, it’s probably going to get worse, and then it will get better. This is true no matter who won the last election. Quit yer bitchin’ and pitch in.

40. BrewFan - June 15, 2009

Yeah, you wing nuts. Quit yer bitchin’ just because your government continues to spend money in such quantities that even the Chinese are going to quit buying our debt because of the exponentially increasing chances that the government is going to default. Pitch in you dumbasses and get the Hope and Change machine churning out skittles and rainbows and puppy dogs for everybody!!!

41. Michael - June 15, 2009

There is the obvious uncertainty that comes from modeling a hypothetical package rather than the final legislation passed by the Congress.

Erm, the “final legislation” was passed by Congress the day after it was written, before anyone read it, because it was so urgent for the Democratic Congress to move swiftly. The “model” was based on the exact legislation that Obama proposed.

Also, the “model” did not really depend on the details of the legislation, just the gross federal spend, and ignored the inevitable lag in that spend due to the lack of the promised “shovel-ready” projects. The “model” has now been proven to be the Obama administration just pulling numbers out of their ass.

Also, SpiFF, you douchebag, when you block copy your bullshit on a new comment thread, try to clean up the line breaks so you look a little less like a mindless troll.

42. spokelement - June 15, 2009

what are u nuts spiff? pitch in? Just exactly are we suppose to do? Help spend more tax money on unworkable initiatives, like cap n screw?

U think this administration used a large margin of error, do u? The only thing this administration does well is blame Bush for everything under the sun….my bad… it looks pretty good at political pay-offs, and making this country one of the worse places for investment dollars on the planet.

I’ll pitch in alright, by helping expose economic illiterate people like Spiff and self-absorbed, cowards like david letterman, jon stewart and the n.y. times editorial board, which are all reasons to bring back tar and feathering.

43. Cathy - June 15, 2009

Quit yer bitchin’ and pitch in.

Ooooo! Wow. Impressive!!

The young kick-ass version of “Arbeit Macht Frei.”

44. Margie - June 15, 2009

Since when are these people being paid to “guess”?

45. Ed - June 16, 2009

just an aside – so, some of the folks commenting here actually give audience to, somehow think that guys like Rush and Newt, etc., aren’t pathelogically insane and ranting idiots only out to incite potential like-idiots? – I guess some of you may even believe GWB was somehow a good pres… and Palin isn’t an obvious moron? I guess “like minds…” Curious – maybe name some more ‘Heros’.

Re: “pitching in”, what else makes sense? About the most one can do positive is to try making the best of what you think is ineptitude; support those in power and try coming up with better ideas under the circumstances.

46. geoff - June 16, 2009

…try coming up with better ideas under the circumstances.

Ah yes – that’s the key. Except that we came up with better ideas back in January and were steamrolled by the Dems and their ill-conceived plan. It’s very cute that you bleat for cooperation now, after forcing the plan we didn’t want, and knew wouldn’t work on the schedule they predicted, down our throats.

So far, “reaching across the aisle” has meant “demanding our cooperation.” So I don’t find it likely that our inputs will be welcomed or even respected, unless our inputs consist of nodding our heads at every plan put forth by this administration.

But that would make us liberals.

47. What Some Of Us Thought Of The Stimulus Back In February « Nice Deb - June 16, 2009

[...] of better,  as predicted by the Obama administration before the stimulus package was passed, our esteemed Vice President, Joe Biden explained: “everyone guessed wrong” [...]

48. xbradtc - June 16, 2009

Re: “pitching in”, what else makes sense? About the most one can do positive is to try making the best of what you think is ineptitude; support those in power and try coming up with better ideas under the circumstances.

Support those in power? No thanks, I think I’ll stick with a higher form of patriotism. Dissent. You may have heard something about that in the last decade or so…

49. spokelement - June 16, 2009

Yes Ed, I think George Bush was a good President because he had the courage to do what he thought was right for this country, which entailed a necessary but politically vulnerable course.

I’m curious Ed, while George Bush and thousands of American men and woman were protecting the interests of conservatives and liberals alike all around the globe, were you and Spiff-hole pitching-in? Or did you smear a presidency with false information like the Daily Show did?

I will not, “pitch in” to help further collapse our economy, nor give in to fascism.

Note: Previous presidents that were highly unpopular during their day and we are all thankful for their service decades later:

Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Harry Truman.

How will you be pitching in Ed? Joining ACORN for a little voter fraud? Help the liberal nut jobs in Washington manipulate Freddie and Fannie Mae funds? Maybe, a little community organizing is your style, because you don’t have the confidence in your own individual rights and freedoms afforded under the U.S. Constitution? Perhaps you will do you patriotic best to run down the governor of Alaska? In your world that probably is considered, “pitching in.”

50. spokelement - June 16, 2009

For Ed and Spiff:

From the American Spectator on June 15, 2009

Monopoly Bad, Centralized Medicine Good
by James Lewis

Here’s an easy game to find out how media-savvy you really are. Just answer “Good” or “Bad” to the following words.

Microsoft? ___________

American Superpower? ________

Multinational Corporations? __________

I make that Bad, Bad, Bad. Which makes sense to me. Monopolies are bad because they concentrate too much power in the hands of a few fat cats.

How about?

Obama as Emperor of America? ___________

Single-Party Media? ___________

Universities all run by the Left? ___________

But wait! Those are all monopolies. In fact, they are by far the most successful monopolies in American life in the Age of O. One reason they are so successful is that nobody calls them monopolies. Certainly not the Monopoly Media.

So — see if I get this now — monopolies are bad if it’s Microsoft or America or multinationals. But monopolies are good if it’s Obama’s Command Economy — or if it’s Leftist control over education from kindergarten to graduate school.

Anybody can play this game.

Big Pharma? ___________

Big FDA? ___________

Big NBC-CBS-ABC-NYT-WaPo? ___________

Big Conservative Talk Radio? ___________

But here’s the real bottom line:

Centralized Medicine? Paradise on Earth.

51. Dave in Texas - June 16, 2009

>> support those in power and try coming up with better ideas under the circumstances.

You do know they were all just fuckin around callin each other “comrade”, right?

Was totally meaningless. Like me wishing you a good day.

52. Edward Von Bear - June 16, 2009

46:
Also, recall how many times Democrats “reached across the aisle” when GWB was in office. It was about as many times as I avoid the Supersizing of my meal

53. geoff - June 16, 2009

It was about as many times as I avoid the Supersizing of my meal

And they have the gall to say that you’re not pitching in to support the economy.

54. Edward Von Bear - June 16, 2009

^just doing my part

55. Joe Cappelleri - June 16, 2009

Firstly, your Comments section should be in reverse chronological order because I am one that is simply not going to read 53 comments before entering the most important one to me, mine, forcing me to scroll down many pages. Good grief.

You have totally over-analyzed the campaign tactics of Obama-Biden.

There is no second place in politics, you’re either gold or toast. Say something that is plausible and convince folks that it is probable. You’ll apologize from the Oval office.

The GOP feels disenfranchised and disillusioned that such government involvement ever could have been condoned or even recommended. Laissez Faire is a cornerstone of the GOP platform.

Obama’s governance has unpredictable effects on our society. The GOP is now a mob of mudslingers with ambiguous leadership.

As a Democrat who has wholeheartedly supported Obama, I revel not but I am concerned about overly confrontational and destructive bickering between the parties that leads to inaction. Inaction on health care reform, education reform, increased parity on taxes with parties in the upper 5% of household incomes (>5.5MM households), Gitmo and the wars.

I see excerpts of Fox News on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart and it seems obvious to Jon and many that we’re watching WGOP. Fine, it’s a free country but don’t call it news or imply that it’s news.

56. lauraw - June 16, 2009

Inaction = sweet, sweet gridlock

Music to my ears.

57. geoff - June 16, 2009

You’re kind of a full-time whiny idiot, arncha Joe.

Para. 1: What a scroll- and reading-challenged loser. It’s called a discussion, dweeb, not a soap box.

Para. 2: In a surprising twist, it turns out that the projections we’re talking about were put forth 2 months after the election.

Para. 3: See Para. 2.

Para. 4&5: Is there a point here? It’s certainly not an accurate characterization of the GOP’s position.

Para. 6: And you vote, too. Joy.

Para. 7: Great research!! Keep up those diligent and exhaustive efforts!!

58. Ed - June 16, 2009

A few questions/responses for spok and others -

– Please enlighten me as to something GWB did that was good (keeping in mind it hasn’t been shown that any terrorism was ‘prevented’).

– “..false information… Daily Show..”, and I suppose Countdown as well – at least KO at Countdown can back up anything he throws out there; I don’t see much of Daily. And all the deceit and lying (for their benefit) from the Bush admin..? WTF!

– Did it ever occur to you and your camp that maybe the “people who run the Universities” have the opinions they have because they are well-educated/informed thinking people (relatively)?

– ‘Dissent’ – I expressed my take on the Bush madness/ignorance/greed/lying like anyone else who didn’t feel helpless while those a-holes did whatever atrocities they wanted against the people of the world, the Constitution, “FrEEdoM” (god, I can’t stand to hear that
one more time…), regardless of what the civilized world thought of it.

– Socialized/centralized medicine/education – I’ve been working, and not working, in Germany off and on for the last 11 years, and both are working great. They are certainly far better educated, and it’s beautifully quick and efficient to any health care I need without paying out of pocket. And the taxes are about the same when you add up Federal, State and Local in the US. Also, I’m looking for work at the moment (for two years,actually) and I live in a paid-for apt., receive enough to live on, as long as I’m seriously looking for work. I’d be in a box on the street here – just had to add that… (it’s illegal not to have a roof over you in Germany).

– As for ‘pitching in’, I really try to think on that one, but so far see little reason not to watch for a while yet what develops under O’s watch, mainly because of his obvious brilliance. (well, obvious to most seriously informed thinkers..)

– one last – The Europeans used to have [inordinate] respect for this country and especially its people. After the 1st Bush “win”, they felt sorry for us, thought we had to have been ripped off. At the 2nd win, they started to scratch their heads and think, ‘damn, the Amis really elected this guy! – maybe they are as pitiful and ignorant as it seems’. Now, the Euris, and most of the developed world from what I can observe and inform myself, are rejoicing over O, BUT, they are watching him closely – since they are lucky enough to be educated and informed…

59. Dave in Texas - June 16, 2009

>> your Comments section should be in reverse chronological order because I am one that is simply not going to read 53

Noted! Thank you. Contact Customer Service, 800-BLO-WME

You’re a peach.

>> Please enlighten me as to something GWB did that was good

He drove you batshit crazy for 8 years (plus really, if we count 2009). That one is my personal favorite.

>> Did it ever occur to you …

No.

>> FrEEdoM” (god, I can’t stand to hear that

Freedom. That one was free, you’re welcome.

>> I’d be in a box on the street here –

And you’d be damned lucky to have it.

>> obvious to most seriously informed thinkers.

We use qualitative measures on that one.

>> The Europeans used to have [inordinate] respect for this country and especially its people.

We won’t rest until they all hate our guts again. Thanks for the head’s up.

Good day!

60. geoff - June 16, 2009

at least KO at Countdown can back up anything he throws out there

I see were starting our day with a little levity. That’s nice.

Did it ever occur to you and your camp that maybe the “people who run the Universities” have the opinions they have because they are well-educated/informed thinking people

Sure. But we actually attended those universities and formed our own judgments about their opinions. And they were found wanting.

I expressed my take on the Bush madness/ignorance/greed/lying

And that’s where you departed from sensible discussion to long-since discredited liberal lunacy. It’s not even worth going over that stupidity. It’s not like we haven’t heard the same moronic pap from your peers for the past 8 years. Try delving into all those memes – you’ll find that they evaporate once you’ve done some decent research.

Ha! Why do I bother?

mainly because of his obvious brilliance

Kool-Aid’s here, wearing a smile!!

Ahem. You mistake wit and oratorical skills for brilliance. Obama has demonstrated repeatedly that he doesn’t understand economics, foreign policy, or the military. Or weren’t you watching?

so far see little reason not to watch for a while yet what develops under O’s watch

Unprecedented pace of expenditures and long-term obligations, degradation of the dollar, prospect for crippling inflation, unanswered military threats from Iran, North Korea, China, and Russia? That’s a small sampling what’s happened so far.

How much longer did you plan on waiting?

61. Hal - June 16, 2009

BrewFan brought up China and it was interesting to see Geithner over there recently, hat in hand, begging them to continue to buy our debt. He even got laughed at in a speech. One of the plans China seems intent on carrying out is taking the dollar reserves and debt they’ve secured from us and turning it into assets in the form of commodities. They’ve been buying up mining companies, oil, and other commodity producing companies for a while now. Some think they’re trying to get out of the dollar as much as possible by doing this. Throw into the mix them and Russia talking about setting up a new reserve currency and it’s a really unstable world economy with these players looking to set themselves up as the new world power.

62. skinbad - June 16, 2009

Please enlighten me as to something GWB did that was good (keeping in mind it hasn’t been shown that any terrorism was ‘prevented’).

I can’t prove it, but I’ll bet the demonstrations in Iran have drawn a lot of power and hope from what’s going on in Iraq. Yea, these incredibly courageous people might get crushed, but if they don’t? Iraq and Iran as moderate, stable anchors in the ME? Who would deserve the credit for that? I sure hope it happens. I hope you do, too. No matter who that would reflect on.

63. spokelement - June 16, 2009

Joe Cappelleri can also soon revel in double digit unemployment and a growing flight of U.S. investment dollars to foreign countries where greater economic opportunities exist, versus the shrinking opportunities in this country due rapidly expanding and increasingly oppressive government.

The pending opportunities in green industries don’t count because they are just the next government manufactured bubble that will leave investors holding an empty bag in a few years; although the politically favored will no doubt benefit under this administration as they already have in banking, autos, insurance and soon health care.

Liberal chowder heads in California and N.Y. have essentially bankrupted their own state economies, pursuing ridiculous, unsustainable policies and now it is time to do the same to the national economy?

About the obvious news from the daily show and count down? Please…, one is a comedy show and the other has moron for a host. How can you miss that?

As for, “people who run the Universities and have the opinions they have because they are well-educated/informed thinking people (relatively)?”

Do you mean the same over compensated, under-performing educators that have help degraded U.S. educational standards hawking unsustainable liberal agendas? The same ones that are dependent on continued tax payer expenditures to maintain their often undeserved stature at many crappy universities around the country?

And then there are the experts from those universities that insist climate change legislation is absolutely necessary even though glaciers have been advancing and retreating for hundred of centuries. 97% of global warming gases is water vapor and after subtracting the remaining naturally occurring green house gases the remaining man-made GHG is only .117%. Now we are going to spend $billion to eliminate that small percentage of G.H.G.? What in the world is that likely to accomplish, besides collapsing economies and cause millions in developing countries to starve to death?

Is Joe talking about those well-educated/informed people?

He must mean those same people that continue to suck off government provided funding, that without a global warming crises their research funding would be cut off and would actually have to get a productive job, instead of advancing liberal agendas in a vacuum safe from any real world intrusions.

As for what Europe thinks, just because many European nations are largely a screwed up mess, is not sufficient reason to insist that we do the same here. Why is it a problem that Europeans won’t approve if we don’t do the same to our nation?

Given what the current administration is proposing to do with cap and screw, government health care, check card, NAFTA rewrites, its no wonder investors have been fleeing from U.S. based companies.

I am sure this is all more reasons for Joe to blame George Bush, because after all, he has his sources; not credible news sources, just sources.

64. Ed - June 16, 2009

“..we came up with better ideas back in January…” – Please refresh my memory – had sporadic access to US news from that time..

“97% of global warming gases is water vapor and….the remaining man-made GHG is only .117%.” – I’m interested – some of your sources?

I don’t have time now to continue in the discussion, but thanks for shedding light on opinions from ‘some other sides’.

65. Dave in Texas - June 16, 2009

>> I don’t have time now to continue in the discussion

No problem, I’ll take over for you for a while.

“Ed: blah blah blah”

You’re welcome, and good day!

66. sandy burger - June 16, 2009

Please enlighten me as to something GWB did that was good

OK. Here’s something that a liberal should like:

By restructuring homelessness aid to emphasize “Housing First” programs, he reduced chronic homelessness by about 30% (and overall homelessness by about 10%).

Look it up.

67. Top Posts « WordPress.com - June 16, 2009

[...] Joe Tries to Spin, But Ends Up Twisting in the Wind In the comments, lauraw linked to Joe Biden’s spin on the economic predictions for the stimulus package: Vice [...] [...]

68. Christopher Taylor - June 16, 2009

Psst you’re on Fact Check bud. They used your graph.

69. spokelement - June 16, 2009

Ed,

In a Letter to the Wall Street Journal on May 4, 2009, James W. Benefiel from Dunedin, Fla. detailed the referenced percentages of green house gases.

I put this letter into a post on May 15th at:

http://spokelement.wordpress.com/

You will have to scroll down to the letter.

I have forwarded the letter to several self-claimed experts, climate change enthusiasts, and a few media sources. No one has yet refuted the percentages.

A response from the Pacific Northwest Inlander here in Spokane, mentioned something about a feed-back loop that the untrained or unworthy do not understand, but the comments were mostly a rant about how the WSJ is an unreliable news source, and climate change deniers are basically stupid.

When checking their website today after your request, it appears the original column, my letter, and the responding comments have been removed. The original author’s name is Paul Haeder.

If you find someone that refutes the percentages, please advise.

70. mandible claw - June 17, 2009

“A response from the Pacific Northwest Inlander here in Spokane, mentioned something about a feed-back loop that the untrained or unworthy do not understand, but the comments were mostly a rant about how the WSJ is an unreliable news source”

Lol what

71. spokelement - June 17, 2009

Might not have been fair to say it was the Pacific Northwest Inlander, rather I should have wrote a writer or columnist for that paper made those comments.

72. Michael - June 17, 2009
73. Random thoughts « lookingforlissa - June 17, 2009

[...] EVERYONE guessed wrong about the effect of the stimulus.  EVERYONE. . . . except for House Republicans, Pence, economists, and just about every [...]

74. The Anchoress — A First Things Blog - June 18, 2009

[...] Epic Fail: this graph, and this, and this and this and this and [...]

75. Unemployment: June Projection and a Dire Warning of Posts to Come « Innocent Bystanders - June 30, 2009

[...] (”the Bush economy was worse than we thought”). As has been pointed out many times before, from the time of the bill’s passage until early June, they claimed that they fully [...]

76. spokelement - July 7, 2009

And now for a long line of excuses….

77. retirement plan - July 26, 2009

poor joe… lol… retirement plan

78. July Unemployment « Innocent Bystanders - August 7, 2009

[...] did not “guess wrong” on the stimulus [...]

79. Demosthenes USA - August 7, 2009

I know I’m coming late to the party, but…

@ Ed (Post 58):

– Please enlighten me as to something GWB did that was good (keeping in mind it hasn’t been shown that any terrorism was ‘prevented’).

Fair enough. I’ll show you “prevented terrorism” when you show me “saved or created jobs.” Sound good?

…at least KO at Countdown can back up anything he throws out there

If by “back up” you mean “dazzle the viewer with rhetorical insults,” good call. Keith Olbermann’s show is about as backed up as my toilet…the problem is, the same stuff is backing up both of them…

Did it ever occur to you and your camp that maybe the “people who run the Universities” have the opinions they have because they are well-educated/informed thinking people (relatively)?

No, I can honestly say it didn’t occur to me for a single minute. But then again, that’s probably because I work with those people each and every day, and I know firsthand how short-sighted they really are on anything that’s not within their immediate subject area. Mr. Magoo ain’t got nothin’ on them.

No more. You bore me.


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